$1/2 friday night casino.

V1 (~400) -MAWG. Preflop raise is $12 from any position. pretty loose preflop. Takes stab at the pot constantly. Avg hand reader. 'try to rep hand' even though some lines don't make sense. changes gear based on opponent. value bets tptk 3 streets vs loose players where as goes for just one street of value vs tight players. He has check called 77248 board with AJo to a complete drooler (middle aged indian guy). Indian guy was the table attraction and he left with ~150 when he started loosing from ~500. he had no clue how to play. So V1 can hero call

V2(~350) Chinese middle aged guy. he was super loose when i sat down but tightened up after some time. puts pressure on weak tight players in position. Plays straight forward oop. Over shoved on king flush turn when checked to from a tighter player. he seems to believe in 'Fat value'. changes gear based on player type.

V3(~200) old guy. On a second buyin. hero felted him with trips. Level 1 thinker. hangs on to top pair.

V4(~100) black middle aged lady. lost her stack of around 200 to hero. she has no idea what she is doing

hero covers. hero has been at the table for around 1.30 hrs. Image should be on a tighter side. after being on the table for 20 mins or so hero played his first hand by 3bet with AK and V4 called and got her stack on KQXX board on turn. hero takes time on flop for decisions. hero donk bets $5 (like a where am i bet) and have folded to any raise on flop like 3 times. Once on a A55 board with 54s hero donk bet the same LOL amount and busted V3. hero has his name on $2/5 waiting list. not sure table knows though

dynamics with V1. hero raised to $10 with 1010. got call by 3 including V1 on button. V1 & V2 have position on hero. Q89r board. Checked around to V1, he bets 30. Hero tank calls. everyone else folded, blank turn, checked around. River an ACE. hero tanks and then checks. V1 tanks and then checks. Both had 1010 and pot got chopped. Hero asks villains " would you fold if i bet $60 on the river".. V1 says " $60... hmmm yeah i folds for that much.".. Then villain asks if hero would have folded if V1 bets $60 instead.. Hero said "Never". he shakes his head. so we have a clear dynamics. after that hand V1 plays face up against hero thus far.

table has seen hero steals twice though in position. dont know if people remember it. once with a river bet which look like value bet against V2 OOP on a 72K27 board with 33 with a river bet and V2 tank called with KX.

On to the hand:

3 limp. hero raises to $10 from button with J10. V1,V2,V3 & V4 calls.

Flop (~50): K103r. Checked around to hero. hero tanks and bet $15. V3 & V4 folds

turn (~90): blank. check around to hero. hero bets $35. V1 folds. V2 tank calls.

River (~160): A. V1 checks. hero ?

how profitable is it to bluff on the river @ $1/2 on a regular basis with this line?

V1 folds on the turn or V2 does, because V1 checks the river.

In general, you will show a profit betting the turn. But that depends an awful lot on who you're playing and what kind of mood they're in.

Edit: V2 folds on the turn.

I'm not really sure I like your play on any street.

You make a $10 raise preflop that pretty much guarantees you multiway action in a bloated pot with a mediocre hand. Either raise bigger or limp along.

Then you play small ball on the flop and turn with a mediocre hand. I'd rather just utilize my position and check back. There's not a whole lot of worse hands that can call you on the flop and turn.

The way you got to the river, I still check this back. You're bluffing against what exactly? KJ? QT? JT? QJ and AT both got there, Kx doesn't make sense if he "tank called' the turn. He couldn't really have been considering folding top pair to such a small turn bet, could he?

you said v1 was a hero caller. not the person to be bluffing. plus you tanked on the flop and gave the impression you might be betting light.

IMHO: how profitable is it to bluff on the river @ $1/2 on a regular basis with this line? Is a no-go at low stakes on a regular basis regardless of line. They are not folding *any* river once they reach it. I guess it also depends on what hand you are trying to bluff out (even more maybe then what hand you are trying to represent)?

Bluffing at 1/2 is generally not profitable and you were caught bluffing with 33 earlier. So you're going to get called light. Are you representing QJ or AK on this river? QJ might underbet flop and turn, AK probably bombs flop and turn. So, I think the story gets confusing. I don't know if V1 can fold Kx on this river. Im unsure of his range but your bets have looked weak and may have tied him into this pot.
I like either bigger pre or limp behind.
If raised pre, I like bigger OTF (esp assuming you got fewer callers with the bigger preflop bet). And if continuing, bigger turn. River is check behind.
The big issue I see with the betting pattern here is that you would have bet bigger with top pair or a set, and it doesn't seem like the ace could have hit you. The only hand you rep is QJ and V might not consider that among your possible hands.

You can absolutely profitably bluff at 1/2. It's entirely about picking the best spots against the ideal opponent. The opportunities are there if you are observant. Anyone who says otherwise is missing out on value.

Raise more pre.

Usually just checking flop.

Turn, what are you doing?

Not a bad spot to bluff river I guess. But the way you got here was bad.

At this table, hardly anyone except V1 & V2 seems to be accounting potsize and was thinking on relative bet sizing to previous bet. I wanted it to go multiway for various reasons preflop. On the river, i am pretty much thinking using card removal by my question. V1 tank call - what my read was that he was thinking either i have total air or is trying to value town. V1 is not a drooler. he knows that i know he hero calls. A bet of $ 75-100 would be hard to call even with a two pair. btw, he is bet folding with a two pair on the river as per my read

Just a short note: kelisitaan model works wonders in my casino @$1/2.

He knows that i know he is a hero caller and he is a decent player for $1/2. I tank on all flop for the entire session.

thanks

I don't understand, and I am not sure you do either, as to why you bet the turn?

I like the flop bet, maybe size a little more but it is fine. This is one of the few times I advocate betting to protect your hand from giving a free card to 4 other villains who would have otherwise folded the flop (ie A2/Q8 type hands)

Also the small flop bet gets value from under pairs like 66 or even 34.

Once you get called on the flop(way ahead way behind scenario), it is time to check it down, your work is done and try and get to show down.

Preflop is the most important street.

A raise to $10 is getting no folds. So if you raise it needs to be bigger but I would consider folding. I'd raise over limpers who raise a little and limp a ton, because you can eliminate better Jx/Tx hands that would have come in for a raise. But these Vs sound like they'll be limping all the hands that have you dominated, so what do you want to flop? If AJ/KJ/QJ/AT/KT/QT are all in these guy's limp range, you just own yourself. You basically need to hit a straight.

You would fold pre? Assume that's a typo and u meant call. You have jt suited on the button.

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^ What flop do you want?

[x] The one where we have position against a bunch of bad players.

I can guarantee you that people with $40/hr winrates at 2/5NL aren't folding JTs on the button to 3 limpers.

I do agree with making it more, though. You're not getting very many folds at this skill level, and your fold equity is where a lot of the profit comes from, both pre and post.

All the straights I can hit are the nuts. Lots of semi bluff opportunities. Jack or ten high flops are also good in position. I almost never call preflop but this is one of the best multiway hands possible

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eldiesel, you think that preflop is the most important street here (i disagree, fwiw) but then you advocated the absolute worst preflop decision which is to fold. We can flop all sorts of hands with JTdd. In addition to trips, two pairs, straights, and flushes we can flop lots of draws. We can flop nothing on boards that everyone else probably has nothing as well and we can double barrel runouts that are condusive to double barrelling. Heck we may even flop the oh so elusive AQ8 flop.

It sounds like you are worried about being "coolered" which you shouldn't be because it's hard to hit hands in this game and if we do get coolered we have advantages in position, skill, and initiative which will help us minimize our losses in spots.


As for the hand, just from reviewing the actual hand history I'm ok with pre but this is a super easy checkback on the flop.

im curious...
why do you tank on all flops?
I can think of a bunch of reasons (some wacky).
but that just caught my attention enough to ask why?

Why does having JTs matter if these are the reasons? If you had rags you have position on bad players, you can flop trips, you can hit 2pair, you can hit a straight, and a flush, and a draw, you have the lead when Vs flop air.

I don't like JT because all better Jx and Tx hands are playing and very few worse Jx and Tx hands are playing. So when we flop a J or a T, which is way more frequent that trips/flush/straight, we own ourselves. AT/KT/KJ/AJ/QJ/KQ, I'm all for raising those, I dislike specifically JT.

I make more than 8 BB/hour and I fold it.



I'm talking about specifically JT to specifically 3 limpers. There is better Jx or Tx that limped, probably better diamonds that limped, not a ton of worse diamonds that limped. 1 limper is different. This was 3 limpers and a raise that we couldn't dream of getting HU.

JTs is a very good drawing hand but the point you made kind of makes the point of why folding is so bad. Position is very important.

That being said, you don't barrel just to barrel. Think of a flop like 872dxx. Our hand improves if we turn a 9, a ten, a jack, or any diamond. That's in addition to any of the scare cards we can barrel such as an Ace King or Queen. That's a lot more cards that we can comfortably barrel than if we had 2 random cards or even a random Ace.

JT plays very well multiway. Sure it's a bit easier to play vs less players but if we get called in 8 spots it's still +EV to raise here. The more players that call the less often we actually have to win the pot to make it profitable. We have advantages in: position, initiative, skill, and dare I say probably even hand strength vs all the random crap that players will limp call with. Sure, some hands may have us dominated but I'd rather play a multiway pot with JTs than KJoff and it's not even close.

Ok let me try to share my thoughts on this hand. First of all, we have V3 & V4 limps who are very inelastic preflop, they mostly is calling any raise once they get in. So JTs is not profitable raising much preflop and raise can keep my range wide (if at all matters for them). Against rock OMC's, in a nitty table i sometime fold lower broadway hands like these as eldiesel said.however in this table,in an unraised pot, i am opening any suited or one gapper most of time in position.
I was trying to set up enough table dynamics as i felt some players can spew later and will make the session pretty good, which is exactly what happened later. i dont want to go into those details. In my OP, you can see that i raise $10 when i had 1010 too. i was keeping my preflop raise size uniform irrespective of hands. I wanted to have a small flop with v3 & v4 and take a stab at the pot when checked to. Play abc once they call. V1& V2 called. my read at that time was that they are not in the pot with big broadway hands.


V1 & V2 were good for this limit. As per my understanding any check on flop or turn, they are sensing it as weakness and would put good pressure. I would be more inclined to check with stronger hands on the turn rather than this hand which i was pretty sure behind. Ok.. on to the flop. Standard line on flop will be to check and take a card as its suicidal to bet here. However, i have to bet here to see how V3& V4 reacts. V1 & V2 are kinda sandwitched in this hand and they would check raise any two pair+ on the flop on this kinda board. v1& v2 called and V3& V4 folded.Now turn is blank and they both again checked. from now on its evident what i was trying to setup. I felt Ace on the river was an interesting card for V1. It can give him a two pair. I would definitely be barrelling again with AK or AJ or QJ(more in my range than his). V1 is not going to go for war when he has lots of spots at the table to get cashed on.

Lets just reverse the hand and see how many calls a pot size river beet with KX or a two pair.

I was more interested on the river play in this hand as was trying to understand how regs react when an overcardcomes and get pressurized

mostly to plan turn & river. Also to make some of them spew hard. some people were quick to get to a conclusion that either i am on a draw or have a monster.