Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-29-2012, 02:50 PM   #1
Garick
Oberbiergenießer
 
Garick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Do you even math, bruh?
Posts: 19,541
1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

Saturday night table. Lotsa laughing and chatting. Lots of hands going to showdown. Pretty juicy, but not outa control PF. Raises are small by local standards (mostly $8-12, no bigger than $15) and pretty much no three betting so far. Game has been going for about an hour.

The cast:

V1: ($137) A psychotherapist in town for a training course. Middle-aged black man with a lot of gamble in him. Came over to the table saying he just won a grand at Blackjack, and proceeded to spew his 1st $300 buy-in to V2.

V2: (covers, about $260) Thinking player, seems laggy. Opening more often than anyone else at the table and c-bets a very high percentage of flops (often into 3 opponents). C-bets are usually about PSB or overbets. Usually shuts down if called on flop (have seen him c-bet, then c/f turn several times) but has so far had the goods (TPTK+) on the two or three times he's continued to build the pot with bets or calls on turn and river. Also a middle-aged middle-class black man, but more "blingy" than V1.

Hero: ($235) Playing very ABC so far. Lost half a stack to V2 when he bet three streets but gave me odds and I folded river when my draw missed.

Significant recent action: About an orbit ago V1 limps, V2 raises, V1 calls (as do one or two others).
V1 checks flop, V2 c-bets a bit over half pot ($15, smaller than usual). V1 check/min-raises, V2 calls. (pot ~$85)
V1 leads turn for $70, V2 thinks for a long time and finally calls.
V1 shoves last $67 OTR and V2 goes deep in the tank, before finally calling with AK for top two-pair. V1 has total air and rebuys for $200.

The hand: V1 limps in EP, one more limper. V2 raise to $12 OTB
Hero has AcJc in SB and calls (thoughts? I think I'm way ahead of LAG's range here, but don't want to make the games first 3-bet OOP with this hand. I could fold here, but figure that LAG will almost always c-bet and if we;'re HU I plan to float)
BB folds, V1 calls, other limper folds. Three to the flop. ($36 after rake)

Flop: AQ8r (one club)
Hero checks with intent of c/c for pot control barring crazy action
V1 checks
V2 c-bets $30
Hero calls (thoughts on this line?)
V1 min-raises. This is starting to look really familiar...
V2 calls (pot $150)
Hero calls getting silly odds with TPGK, even though the pot is now bigger than I want to play with this hand. Any virtue to shoving here since pot-control is out the window anyway?

Turn: AQ8Kdd (pot $180)
V1 shoves his last $65
V2 calls, leaving us about $130 deep against each other, and starts talking to V1, asking if he has a set, saying he has outs if he does. "I'm looking for a boat." Obv V2 knows I still have to act, but not obv if he's talking to influence me or if he just thinks I'm folding for sure based on my passive line so far.

Hero: ???
Garick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 03:01 PM   #2
PokahBlows
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,005
Re: 1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

Wow, hand is a mess, is everyone drunk? Without looking at reads just the hand, calling minraise is a mistake.

Ok reads didn't change my thinking of the hand. Fold turn and save your $130.

I think villain one shows up with AQ/AK/88.
PokahBlows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 03:59 PM   #3
Nogyong
veteran
 
Nogyong's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London
Posts: 2,782
Re: 1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

I really hate calling villain 1's min check-raise. Seems pretty clear that we'll be forced to commit on the turn and I don't want to get stacks in vs villain 2 with this hand.

But once we call the flop, I'm going with it on the turn because we must have decided that V2 could have Ace-rag and there is no reason for us to suddenly change that read now that there is even more money in the pot.
Nogyong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 04:33 PM   #4
TAOxEaglex
old hand
 
TAOxEaglex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,584
Re: 1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

Don't get greedy, 3b and try to take it down right there. If LAG happens to call, you know you are ahead of his range even if you are OOP.
TAOxEaglex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 04:54 PM   #5
Garick
Oberbiergenießer
 
Garick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Do you even math, bruh?
Posts: 19,541
Re: 1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

^^ I assume you mean pre?
Garick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 05:20 PM   #6
chuckles2020
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 743
Re: 1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

don't be afraid to 3bet pre. if lag is opening the button AJ is pretty standard to 3 bet from the sb
chuckles2020 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 05:44 PM   #7
TAOxEaglex
old hand
 
TAOxEaglex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,584
Re: 1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

Yeah, 3bet pre, fold flop, fold turn.
TAOxEaglex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 10:21 AM   #8
Garick
Oberbiergenießer
 
Garick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Do you even math, bruh?
Posts: 19,541
Re: 1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

I was worried about commitment, but I don't see how we can fold to the LAG's bet, which really doesn't narrow his range at all, and once it gets back to us we're getting 5-1 to call the min-raise with TPTK. I don't know if we're just playing for trips and 2-pair if we continue, but those odds seem too juicy to pass up, esp against a LAG and a player who has shown the ability to min-raise with air.

Again, though, the problem is commitment...
Garick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 12:20 PM   #9
DevinLake
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DevinLake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,011
Re: 1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

Preflop is fine given read. You're ahead of lags range, and you'll let the fish in the pot and other limpers. AJs plays well enough multiway.

Flop, I c/c and then fold to the raise. I'm not sure what you are getting silly odds for? You can be drawing dead and you often only improve to second best.

Turn, I fold if I got there some how.
DevinLake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 12:42 PM   #10
ThierryHenry
grinder
 
ThierryHenry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Coraopolis, PA
Posts: 599
Re: 1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

I think I would prefer a 3bet preflop to try to get heads up with V2.

As played what are the thoughts of check raising the flop with the intention of stacking off? V1 might gamble with you and your hand should still be ahead of V2's range. And if you are ahead of V2 he's likely to shut down unimproved on the turn and river.
ThierryHenry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 09:11 PM   #11
Garick
Oberbiergenießer
 
Garick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Do you even math, bruh?
Posts: 19,541
Re: 1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

^^^ I lieky. I never even thought of that line. I never seriously considered this, as I wanted to realize my SDV and it seems like turning TPGK into a bluff, but it has major advantages in that the fish may well give me value with worse, and the LAG is unlikely to call, and likely to slow down if so, unless he has me crushed.

Nice alternate line...
Garick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2012, 09:58 AM   #12
Garick
Oberbiergenießer
 
Garick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Do you even math, bruh?
Posts: 19,541
Re: 1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

Well, I guess TTHRIC.

Results:
Spoiler:

I don't know if the psychotherapist thought that we thought that he'd never take the same line on a similar board twice in a row as a stone-cold bluff, or if he was just a spew-monkey, but...
Garick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2012, 10:23 AM   #13
chopper5654
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: St Louis
Posts: 896
Re: 1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

He didn't have air. He thought he balanced with a big hand.
chopper5654 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2012, 02:35 PM   #14
fold4once
The Situation
 
fold4once's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: atop inexperienced knife wielders
Posts: 4,219
Re: 1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

It's dangerous to get sandwiched between two players who are going to war. Then again, it's a great spot to be in when you have real value.

But in a spot like this AJ becomes marginal very quickly and the problem is you have no idea where you're at. I think you have to either make an aggressive commitment decision early in the hand, or GTFO.
fold4once is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2012, 02:38 PM   #15
DevinLake
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DevinLake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,011
Re: 1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

Just because a worse hand won the pot doesn't mean it was a bad fold.
DevinLake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2012, 09:47 PM   #16
Garick
Oberbiergenießer
 
Garick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Do you even math, bruh?
Posts: 19,541
Re: 1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

Quote:
Just because a worse hand won the pot doesn't mean it was a bad fold
That's what I kept telling myself. Actually, didn't tilt for more than three hands, so I guess I believed me.
Garick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2012, 10:06 PM   #17
ledoutwbottomset
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 1,439
Re: 1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

Op did u ship a final table at ceasers last week?

On to the hand. Pre I would consider 3betting (which would look strong at a table with no 3bets) ie JJ+. Calling is fine as it gets the fish involved, plus u crush btn's range. Otf I think I would lead for 25 and fold to a btn raise (btn by description won't raise without it, and I would rather lead an amount I wanted, than to CC a PSB) probably play a big pot if the fish raised (once btn cold calls the fish raise) I am done with the hand
ledoutwbottomset is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2012, 10:09 PM   #18
ledoutwbottomset
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 1,439
Re: 1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokahBlows View Post
Wow, hand is a mess, is everyone drunk? Without looking at reads just the hand, calling minraise is a mistake.

Ok reads didn't change my thinking of the hand. Fold turn and save your $130.

I think villain one shows up with AQ/AK/88.
I don't think v1 would open limp anyone of those hands pre, then just call a raise.
ledoutwbottomset is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2012, 08:32 PM   #19
Garick
Oberbiergenießer
 
Garick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Do you even math, bruh?
Posts: 19,541
Re: 1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

Maybe 88... V1 actually showed up with J8off

Spoiler:

Not me, sadly. I haven't been to Vegas since this summer, and haven't been to the final table of a donkament since November. Someone using my name?
Garick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 06:43 PM   #20
HotQuad
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: 1Barrel 2Barrel 3Barrel 4.
Posts: 223
Re: 1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fold4once View Post
But in a spot like this AJ becomes marginal very quickly and the problem is you have no idea where you're at. I think you have to either make an aggressive commitment decision early in the hand, or GTFO.
Took the words right out of my mouth.
HotQuad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 06:47 PM   #21
HotQuad
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: 1Barrel 2Barrel 3Barrel 4.
Posts: 223
Re: 1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick View Post
Maybe 88... Someone using my name?
I've heard the name garick a couple times down here... I think both were at bellagio. I always look but haven't seen him(or you).
HotQuad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 09:13 PM   #22
Garick
Oberbiergenießer
 
Garick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Do you even math, bruh?
Posts: 19,541
Re: 1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

Congrats on finally making it to Vegas, Mr. Quad. I hope you're loving it out there. I heard that you went deep in a Deep Stack.
Garick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 09:22 PM   #23
todd1007
banned
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,332
Re: 1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokahBlows View Post
Wow, hand is a mess, is everyone drunk? Without looking at reads just the hand, calling minraise is a mistake.

Ok reads didn't change my thinking of the hand. Fold turn and save your $130.

I think villain one shows up with AQ/AK/88.
yeah. you are crushed here. you probably have outs... so shove if you want to GAMBOL
todd1007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 09:32 PM   #24
HotQuad
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: 1Barrel 2Barrel 3Barrel 4.
Posts: 223
Re: 1/2 LAG on Donk violence, get involved with TPGK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick View Post
Congrats on finally making it to Vegas, Mr. Quad. I hope you're loving it out there. I heard that you went deep in a Deep Stack.
Thanks. It wasn't easy getting out here but I love it. I think that was another guy who went deep. I was the one who went home crying lol


I was inches from the win and I blew it bigtime. Oh well. I'll be better prepared and well rested for the next FT
HotQuad is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online