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1/2 -- KK facing turn x/shove on paired board 1/2 -- KK facing turn x/shove on paired board

11-19-2013 , 03:22 PM
Playing at my local club on Saturday night, there was more money on the table than I had ever seen at a 1/2 game. I started off on the secondary table but moved to the main game after a couple of hours, where all of the action was going down. This hand occurred shortly after I moved.

V1 - $1,500 (UTG): Late 20s, black/Haitian (?) guy who had scooped a few massive pots since I'd sat down, though I wasn't really able to pay attention to what had happened as I was moving my chips and focusing on ordering dinner. But on one hand, there was a double-straddle (first to $5, next to $10), a bunch of people called, he completed from the $5 straddle, then big straddle shoves for $250 more, folds around to V1 who snap calls with Q4o, ends up flopping a Q and busting the guy's TT.
V2 - $200 (MP): Early/mid 20s white kid who I hadn't seen play a hand.
Hero - $485 (HJ): 24 y/o white guy who just moved to the table. A few of these players have played with me, about half haven't, including two involved in this hand.

Hand:

V1 opens UTG to $10, V2 (sitting immediately to my right) calls, Hero 3-bets to $45 with KK. V1 calls and V2 folds.

Pot: $98
Flop: Q33

V1 checks, Hero bets $45, V1 snaps.

Pot: $188
Turn: 4

V1 checks, Hero bets $111, V1 shoves ($284 more) ... Hero ?
1/2 -- KK facing turn x/shove on paired board Quote
11-19-2013 , 03:28 PM
Call lol.

The main thing you should come away with is that after the 45 pre, you should have a sizing plan to get ai by river. Flop 50, turn 140, river 250.

Some guys will peg him for a 3x hand I guess? If he had limped I agree the trip 3s are likely, but the garbage hands have been limps?, so wit hthe EP raise pf his range is way more weighted towards hands with Qs in them than hands with 3s in them.
1/2 -- KK facing turn x/shove on paired board Quote
11-19-2013 , 03:32 PM
Snap call. Reload.
1/2 -- KK facing turn x/shove on paired board Quote
11-19-2013 , 08:44 PM
Call he has way more Qs in his range than 3s. He raised pre and called a 3 bet. You just have to get it in
1/2 -- KK facing turn x/shove on paired board Quote
11-19-2013 , 08:52 PM
Is this BBV or a genuine decision?
1/2 -- KK facing turn x/shove on paired board Quote
11-19-2013 , 09:22 PM
Its def a call but curious of results anyways?
1/2 -- KK facing turn x/shove on paired board Quote
11-20-2013 , 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddhalo
Its def a call but curious of results anyways?
I thought for a few seconds and called. He had Q9.

5 on river to give him flush

Obviously not trying to tell a bad beat story ... just wondering how likely it is that he actually shows up with queens often enough here to justify a call. When he shoved I was almost positive he peeled a 4 on the turn for a boat.
1/2 -- KK facing turn x/shove on paired board Quote
11-20-2013 , 11:48 AM
Right call, bad beat, reload

Sent from my Nexus 5 using 2+2 Forums
1/2 -- KK facing turn x/shove on paired board Quote
11-20-2013 , 01:25 PM
Ya i was guessing A2dd or 56dd but he pretty much had the same thing..
1/2 -- KK facing turn x/shove on paired board Quote
11-20-2013 , 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddhalo
Ya i was guessing A2dd or 56dd but he pretty much had the same thing..
No way I put that in his range. Not giving the guy credit to raise pre, call 3-bet, float flop and x/shove turn with either of those hands.
1/2 -- KK facing turn x/shove on paired board Quote
11-20-2013 , 05:38 PM
I know.. And it seems crazy.
These player types sometimes call 3 bets with kracker types hands bc they think they have lol Implied Odds.

I just meant that when he shoved the turn i thought to myself that those are 2 hands this player type would shove with...

Obv he called with q9 so a2 5/6 can def be in that range for future...
1/2 -- KK facing turn x/shove on paired board Quote
11-20-2013 , 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddhalo
Obv he called with q9 so a2 5/6 can def be in that range for future...
Not exactly. Q9s is way different than a weak Ace and low suited runners. Of course it can be in V's range in the future, but until you see him go as nuts with garbage Aces it's wrong to include it.
1/2 -- KK facing turn x/shove on paired board Quote
11-20-2013 , 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiesel

The main thing you should come away with is that after the 45 pre, you should have a sizing plan to get ai by river. Flop 50, turn 140, river 250.
Your opponent's utg pf raise normally implies that he doesn't have a single three in his hand. His turn check-raise looks like what it turned out to be TP with the FD. You should, as you did, call in this spot most of the time against most players. Good play bad result.
1/2 -- KK facing turn x/shove on paired board Quote
11-20-2013 , 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiesel
Call lol.

The main thing you should come away with is that after the 45 pre, you should have a sizing plan to get ai by river. Flop 50, turn 140, river 250.
disagree. he rarely has a hand good enough to just c/c 3barrels in this spot. most of the time doing something fancy to give him the opportunity to go crazy is much more useful against these type of player.
1/2 -- KK facing turn x/shove on paired board Quote
11-21-2013 , 12:07 AM
you did the right thing at the wrong time, better luck next time
1/2 -- KK facing turn x/shove on paired board Quote
11-21-2013 , 12:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sauhund
disagree. he rarely has a hand good enough to just c/c 3barrels in this spot. most of the time doing something fancy to give him the opportunity to go crazy is much more useful against these type of player.
I mean between the V calling and the flop coming out. Most of the time that's what you'll want with KK, have that plan in mind. But I do think it also applies here. AQ, KQ, QJ are the hands that plan will work against in this scenario, the board pairing 3s is great because V can hit his kicker with the QJ and not improve, and with any other hands we wouldn't make much at any point. And with the hand V had he raises ott and does our work for us.
1/2 -- KK facing turn x/shove on paired board Quote

      
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