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1-2 KK 525bb deep

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09-15-2018 , 09:24 AM

Vandelay

enthusiast

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 86

1-2 Europe
1050 effective
EP 10(fish)
Hero 3bet 45 KK(1050 deep)
CO Call(fish 300 deep)
SB Call(spot at the table covers everyone)
BB 4bet 215 Winning TAG reg(1050 deep)

Everyone was looking to play pots against SB so BB could be wider than normal, but still has to beat CO who flats with a stack of 300.

Folded back to me.
Call or raise?

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09-15-2018 , 09:40 AM

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,514

Re-raise and mentally thank him for raising so that we can get our SPR to a decent level this deep.

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09-15-2018 , 09:46 AM

tmo1120

adept

Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 1,027

he could have JJ+/AQ+; you should want to re-raise and isolate rather than see a pot multiway, you'll have position on this guy post flop too so why not inflate the pot here and look to barrel most flops

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09-15-2018 , 09:57 AM

ImAllInNow

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,856

I don't really like the 3-bet sizing here in position. Seems like $25 would be sufficient. I suppose I've never played in a game with this many super deep stacks so maybe your raise is the standard?

As played... I dunno, feels like we have to just jam all in here although I'm not loving it since we're never getting called by worse hands (except for CO). Flatting seems like we're set mining which maybe is not sooooo bad, but if we feel we're ahead of BBs range then jamming seems like a must to avoid the pot going 4 ways.

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09-15-2018 , 09:58 AM

ImAllInNow

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,856

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmo1120

They're 1050 effective and the 4-bet was to $215, what postflop play are you envisioning here? That he 5-bets to like $400 or something?

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09-15-2018 , 10:12 AM

tmo1120

adept

Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 1,027

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImAllInNow

you answered your own question here. never getting called by worse hands if we jam. I don't see any problem with putting in a smallish type of 5 bet here . your hand is a little less face up when you do this I suppose but jamming is certainly an option as well.

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09-15-2018 , 10:26 AM

hyperknit

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 2,692

Easy all in

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09-15-2018 , 10:37 AM

ImAllInNow

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,856

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmo1120

I don't see any problem with putting in a smallish type of 5 bet here . your hand is a little less face up when you do this I suppose but jamming is certainly an option as well.

The problem is that doesn't change your range at all. Unless you're a whacko and you're gonna put in $400 and fold for the remaining $650 getting well over 2 to 1. All you're doing is allowing your opponent to call with worse and set-mine or ace-mine you.

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09-15-2018 , 11:17 AM

tmo1120

adept

Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 1,027

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImAllInNow

Yes, it is effectively the same thing but say you raise to like 550 , you're opponent could still jam and you give him that option to instead of shoving into him and he would have to call or fold; if he jams then you are well ahead of his jamming range most likely and if he calls he's not really getting the right price to set mine, he's going to need to hit it on the flop as well because the rest of the stack is going in on the flop; I know its probably unlikely that he would jam over a small 5-bet but I think it could be more profitable and can be perceived as a weaker range than a jam by some opponents

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09-15-2018 , 11:29 AM

#10

HawkesDave

adept

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 1,173

With an EP raise and two cold 3b flattors I think card removal is pretty likely here as far as seeing AA. Cold 4b from the BB is often A5s bluff and it’s super hard for anyone to call without KK+. Just 5b jam and collect the monies if they fold. This feels like a super profitable spot and you might just get called by AK/QQ (although highly doubtful).

Btw, this sounds like an amazing game for a 1/2 table.

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09-15-2018 , 05:31 PM

#11

Minatorr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 5,235

Vs TAG cold 4b from BB, esp vs uncapped EP opener and our uncapped 3b range + sometimes trapping 2 cold callers, probably an ez fold 500 bigs deep imo. Shipping is some big spew

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09-15-2018 , 06:22 PM

#12

Vandelay

enthusiast

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 86

I've presented this as if I'm the one with KK.
I had AA.
He made it 550 and I shoved.

5 betting protects our equity, but seldom gets it in against worse.

I was wondering if it's more important to protect our equity than keeping in JJ and QQ by flatting the 4bet.
I'm not concerned about fish making a bad call preflop.
It's 170 more for them to call...

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09-15-2018 , 08:32 PM

#13

Minatorr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 5,235

A winning TAG will very rarely cold 4b from the BB here given action

V got rightfully stacked lol BB’s range here is just 90%+ minimum AA

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