What did BB show up with, or did he fold for the extra $3...well played, as said shoving is worse than raising to about what you did and you're never calling, still think in future spots you should be raising it pre

makes sense, I thought we should jam oringinally but I see your side of the argument, But never raise to 34 like some shmuck suggested psr

good thing thats not the reason I'm shoving at all. But nice try.

Ironically you're not within a light year of being anything remotely close to correct, but it's good to know that this gets you irate enough to explode in front of your computer and start jamming the CAPS button repeatedly.

A number of people have noted in this thread that you can't get stacks in comfortably at all by raising without shipping. Do you really find it viable here to make it $65? You would then have to make decisions in a spot where a boatload of turn cards suck when you have $72 of a $190 stack invested. How does shipping a 6d turn feel? Qd? Ah? 7s?

Also, "only" 40% of the deck is bad? Only?

A billion dollars in EV? Really? We're playing an effective 95xBB stack in a cash game in a fairly close spot.

He didn't show but it was probably some weak second or third pair.

hahaahhAHAHahahahahahahahahAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAh ahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaahhaahhaah

sorry, I never exploded. I just giggled enough at your post to try and get a point across.

You're both begging the question.

This thread gets locked if you two can't keep away from the attacks.

So the argument right now is which option is better. Raising or shoving? Raising allows weaker jacks and FD's to call while shoving lets you win the $84 immediately probably close to 95% of the time. I still think raising and then making tough decisions is more profitable but honestly both plays are fine and there are much more interesting spots in NL. You could do the math on this and if you think weaker jacks are equal or close to as likely as FD's then stacking them should be your first priority. If weaker jacks call a raise 80% (could be less or more but i think this is a good estimate) of the time but fold to a shove most of the time then shoving is a bigger mistake then I first thought.

But if the reason for shoving is fear of the turn card then that is definitely not a good argument. The only argument should be: what is more profitable against my opponents range, look at the combinations of weak jacks and the combinations of Fd's and see what has more combos, whichever has more combos is more likely to be his hand given preflop action. It's just a math problem now and pokerstove can help settle this debate. Maybe I'll come back and stove all the ranges but my intuition after playing over a million hands is raising is far and away the better option. Be back with proof!