Main villain is an unknown to me and I have her outchipped - sits with roughly $280.

Otth:

Utg ($51), mp1 and mp2 limps
Hero otb raises to $20
Sb (main villain) flats $20
Utg ships, mp1 and mp2 folds

$31 to call

Hero ???

Flat in this spot or a good 4bet spot? Imo sbs range is as followed.

AJo+, AJss+, KQss, 9s+

Why would you try and iso an all in with J high? Call.

$20 seems a little higher than I would usually be raising in this spot pre, but I don’t mind it.

I’m definitely calling vs. trying to isolate with Jack high.

Pre sizing is fine/standard. I didn't really look at the pre action too close, but I actually like overlimping better with a short stack that might be shove happy, and I especially like overlimping if the limpers do a lot of limp-calling.

100% calling now that you're here.

No one likes to iso vs a capped range to clean up equity? Getting AJ to fold is a huge win.

Not raising the first time with shorties around, you're making it easy for them both pre and on flop

With the short stack limping UTG, I usually overlimp any hand I don’t want to jam if they decide to l/r. I would include JTs in my limp range here. I would raise/gii with 88+, AJ+, maybe some AT. Comments on that range are welcome.

I call AP

Why would we want to get HU vs a range that we're a heavy dog against?

Easy answer is equity. Getting HU for $31 in $120 pot is good outcome. Even for Jack high in this scenerio.

^This.

By 4betting we are forcing sb to fold out their equity which we are very likely behind given their likely range.

Additionally, to simply flat, pot will be $150 post which leaves for a low spr, and little playability unless we connect with the flop in a big way. So 4betting, getting sb to fold and basically flip with utg for $31 seemed optimal in this spot.

Probably should of added that utg was limp calling, and then check folding nearly every hand so wasn't too concerned of a limp rejam.

Why did you post this if you already had a correct answer
in mind to your question?

There's no way you're flipping vs UTG's range.

Limpers who do a lot of limp-calling are the sort of suckers you want to be isolating with raises, so that you can push them off the pot when they miss the flop 70% of the time with their too-wide range.

If we are going to put on the brakes every time a short stack enters the pot, then we might as well pick up and go home, because at this level half the table is typically playing short.

Why bother with a limping range at all? If we limp and the big blind checks, half the pot is going to disappear down the slot and we've got five players fighting over the scraps.

I just don't wanna get stuck in a 4 way pot is all, because we're not gonna be able to just c bet and take it down enough. The benefit to limping is that we only risk 1 BB, get to play the hand IP, and are up against villains that likely call way too often, and will pay us off when we hit 2p+. Whereas, we raise and risk 10 BB, and then do a lot of folding to leads, or x'ing flop as it xs around and then folding to a turn barrel.

There are plenty of times where we are slight dogs to the limp raise and dominated by the SB. Some examples are LR has 99, SB has AJ, or LR has AK and SB has QJ etc.

I would prefer she folds rather than put in 31 more and steal our equity

If we limp, we will stuck in at least a 5-way pot. Where is the benefit, again?

If 10bb doesn't do the job getting the action heads-up, we should be iso'ing even larger. My default rule of thumb in LOLowstakes NL is 6bb + 2bb for each limper, in the OP's case raising to $24.

If that doesn't do the job, on average, size up even more.

The whole point of the exercise is to take advantage of the people who make the horrible mistake of limping, not to make the same horrible mistake ourselves.

You want to mix in a bit of calling and 4betting. This is definitely a decent candidate to be 4betting. It will have decent equity against a wide range of hands and plays well post flop. We don’t want to be transparent and only be 4betting the top of our range. Also I have found that small stacks like this just get frustrated and will shove light trying to double up and rebuy or go home. You might find sometimes your ahead.

But I could go both ways for calling or 4betting. Just have to have a mix and merge your range in this spot.. Depending on your history or knowledge of the opponent but I would likely lean towards a 4betting. If you want to feel a little better perhaps make it a little on the smaller size giving yourself good equity over time on this play.

So are you even raising in great set mining spots? Say five limp to you OTB with 66, you're raising to take advantage of limping ranges?

I've never tried out a strategy that doesn't even use overlimping. I feel like at a super loose passive and sticky table that it will just lead to a lot of bloated pots mw.

Also, if you have to go huge to iso, don't you narrow ranges so much, that we can no longer print by simply just c betting the flop?

If a short-stacking bozo has limped in ahead of us (see the OP) then our set-mining odds are depleted.

The primary way to make money in this game is to play a strong range in position against one or at most two other players who we have compelled to see a flop with too wide a range to profitably continue to our c-bet. This cannot happen if we limp.

Moreover, in California (where I play) contributing to a pot that gets to a flop without a raise is a small disaster, because of the fixed rake structure.

So are you saying that there's literally no times that you'll overlimp?

My overlimp range only consists of small pps (2s-7s). Of course there are situations that may dictate I limp more, but very rare - I usually just adjust by moving up in my raising range and cancel out the weaker hands.

Moreover, if someone raise pre I 3bet my entire continue range (again, I adjust sometimes due to player type).

Results: I 4bet to $200, SB called. Board ran out in my favour though and I riverred two pair and I got the last $100 on the riv. She had aces, utg had Q8cc.

Purpose for thread: another reg at my table saw my play and was roasting me - when I explained the logic and theory, he asked me to post the hand here.

In a California game where half the pot leaves the table if we see a flop in an unraised pot, yes.

What about a 10% up to $6 rake?

$6 flat rake.

Jesus, you dissect this kind of thinking at the table? Fk that, I’m not telling the mouth breathers how to play. Someone roasts me here, I’m going to look embarrassed and agree with them, not start explaining how equity works.

If we are playing good poker, i.e. raising and three-betting a lot, the jackpot hunters and set miners are going to hate us and complain about it whether we explain ourselves or not. We aren't there to be liked and accepted; we are there to take their money.

Don't talk strategy at the table. Just don't. Ever.