Best 1/2 table have been at in a while. Lots of action. We have been running pretty good and splashing around with the table.


Villain 1- utg+1- 50 something Tagish/weak, hasn't showed down many hands. 50/50 between open limps and open raises. Would lean toward passive to describe his post-flop play so far. Has complained about missing flops.

Villain 2 on button- $600+ has us covered. Mid twenties, decent LAG (small sample size hard to tell if good or bad really). Plays very fast to give careless image. We have little history but I can tell he is a thinking player and probably the 2nd best player at the table and likely thinks the same of me.

Hero- MP- $480 Probably viewed as a good LAG. Have only showed down winners. Have won several big pots without showdown. An orbit before made a big pot sized bet on the turn in a 3 way pot on a wet board which both villains (villain 2 included) tank folded and has led to lots of questions about what I had. Have a good aggressive image.

Villain 1 limps, Hero Raises to $14 with JJ, button flats, Vil. 1 calls

Flop- pot $43 567

Villain 1 bets $40, hero flats, button calls

Turn ($163) J

Villain 1 checks, Hero bets $140, button insta calls, Villain 1 folds

River ($400) A

Hero shove $289 or check to induce?

c/shove seems better; there are probably more missed draws than 2pairs in his range, and he might even decide to bet some of the latter anyway.

yes - shoving is the best play - he will check back most of his 1 pair hands - and if he doesn't believe you on the turn he will call the river. If he has 2 pair he probably won't fold.

He will fold all busted draws but if he has a NFD with an Ace he would of checked back. But he might call if you shove.

And if he has the flopped straight than he played it weird and he will shove river and you will be forced to call any ways.

I just can't see him trying to bluff this spot unless he is really bad. And you said he is weak and tagish so that means he won't even try to bluff.

Villain 2 on button- $600+ has us covered. Mid twenties, decent LAG (small sample size hard to tell if good or bad really). Plays very fast to give careless image. We have little history but I can tell he is a thinking player and probably the 2nd best player at the table and likely thinks the same of me.

It's the thinking LAG that's still in the pot. If he calls a river shove with a bare Axcc then he's an idiot; he'd be better off turning that into a bluff than calling off with it, though I admit the A isn't the best checking card as it might encourage him to check back that hand with SDV. Still think it's better to check and bluff all the missed (1 pair +)draws tho.

Any set / straight that he has in his range all the money is going in no matter how we play the hand.

The question is what does he do with his 2p, 1p, busted draw hands.
If he's a lag, he's betting 2p hands on the river, he's def calling a value bet but might fold to a shove. (Unlikely, but maybe 20% of the time he will.) But I think it's more likely that he would raise 2p on the turn we're showing a lot of strength, but he has to think that he's good with any 2p hand so he'd raise for value. This makes it much less likely that he has 2p.

The only 1p hand that he can call a bet with might be the AcKc, which likely would have raised at some point in the hand.

I think we are much better off checking to induce, or betting something lol small compared to the size of the pot like $50 or so. We can def get looked up by 68,78,58 type hands there.

In short, I think checking >> betting very small > shoving.

I feel like V1 has the A7 here. Let's assume he is a good player until he shows you otherwise. Why would he just call on the turn with the straight, having two flush draws looming, or a set for the same reason? Hero should feel like he has the best hand on the turn to an insta-flat call. That tells us the button wants you to slow down on the river, but was never folding since he picks up more outs on the turn if he has that A-7 or even the A-8 of spades.

If V2 thinks he is good on the turn, he can only feel he is beat if he puts you on the Ax of clubs and he has the pair-open-ender combo. But does he call a pot-sized bet on the turn with those hands? More evidence of a medium suited Ace of spades. I just don't think if he is solid enough that he blanks a club draw on the turn and continues chasing on the turn to a near pot bet.

I'm in the minority perhaps, but I do say continue betting, because I find it hard for him to feel he can steal this pot from you with how strong you played the hand pre, just called post, and woke up again on the turn. Perhaps he read your slight overbet as weakness on the turn, but if he feels you were bluffing with a club draw and binked an ace, would he bet any one pair hands that still have showdown value? I find it hard to believe he ever bets 8's, so I think the pot you have is the maximum you are getting unless he oddly does have that set.

If it isthe A-7 of spades, does he fold to a shove? Only if he feels you aren't capable of making a play and a shove from you means a set or better every time. Then again, who says you have to shove? Even a smaller bet can be $100 or match the $140 from the turn. But I think any bet should be your stack because it looks more like you are just jumping off a bridge, but that wouldn't make sense either since you appear to be ahead in the game.

I guess what it boils down to is the whole hand played quite out of line. You turning a set makes sense, but it almost feels like he can't have much of a range unless he got really sneaky with Aces pre. But wouldn't he want to make it look like a squeeze play and raise the button? Perhaps he feels that isn't really a good $1/$2 play since a 3-bet often takes pots down in $1/$2.

I'm really curious to see what he had and the result now.

I shoved and he said 'that wasn't a good card for me,' tanked for a little and eventually folded. I really have no idea what he had, but I'm guessing some kind of pair + draw combo. I immediately felt like checking the river was the better play although he probably checks back a lot.

In the moment I felt he was strong and could perceive me as missing a big draw and might look me up light. Based on my image and the recent hand I played very agg and got folds that he was more inclined to look me up here.

I needled him and said I missed my flush and thought the ace was a great bluff card. I guess we'll find out now if he reads 2+2.

I don't like shoving in this spot. You get a lot of marginal hands out by pushing.

I'm all for value shoving in the right spot...against this villain no.

Yeah, it is one of those spots you always feel like you missed value. If you check and he cheks back, then shows an Ax of clubs, you feel like you should have bet. Of course, when he says that is a bad card for him, he has a lesser pair usually. Sometimes when I say that, the ace hit me after a missed draw so I think how that's a bad card to get me to call. Maybe that was the case with him.

He must have put you on some kind of ace, but I'm not sure if he tanks with 8's or the pair-draw combo. Maybe he was playing a J-8 suited and the case jack hit the turn, he thought he was good.

All in all, not sure how you get any more value with any of those hands, so I think you continue your line instead of trying to get tricky, because I think any kind of solid player sniffs out the odd lines. At least they do against me. My river payoffs seem to be using any LAG image I have and being the bettor. That could be why I have a different perspective, who knows.

Shove for value. Sometimes Acxc calls and sometimes bottom 2 will check back after your PSB OTT.

Yeah it's an interesting spot, I wanted to make sure I wasn't being results oriented and I see most responses are split between shove and check. Wondering now if betting ~ $80 might be best. Give him 5:1 to call and might invite a spazz but I really doubt he shoves worse, but it likely gives us max value.

The big turn bet was really to set up a river shove though so that was my plan the whole way. Still uncertain what's best.

Grunch:
Easiest shove ever. there are a ton of 2 pair, and combo nut draws that would play the hand this way up to this point. Think about all the amazing combo draws there are. Axcc, A6cc, A9cc, AJcc, A8ss, A9ss, AXss, slow played weird sets, hero calls.

The shove is best, not even close.

Why? What are you going to do in this spot with 88? x/f and lose the pot after missing your OESD? NO!!!

Range merge, IMO.

Look, you only have a 3/4 pot size stack left at the end anyway. Basically all bets here, be they value or bluffs, should all be shoves to maximize both your value when you have it, and your FE when you don't.

IMO, given stack sizes, and given that you hit a vulnerable top set on the turn, I would have made the turn be bigger to make sure he cannot get away, and to get maximum value against his draws. $200 on the turn makes it $360:200 for him to call, which makes his draws unprofitable, and sets us up to shove all rivers and expect many calls since the pot will be $560 and there's just $229 left in stacks.

I like this

I think betting something like 100 is best on the river. Might make him feel like you are on a bluff and spazz or at the very least get a curiosity call. As played I don't feel their is anyway he has a set and its probably not too likely he has two pair otherwise he would have raised flop or turn.

In all likelihood his hand range consists of draws or 1 pair/draws. Money would have went in the turn if his hand had enough value to call your river. One pair hands for him will have showdown value and most likely check behind on river as well.

Just don't feel this is a spot for shove or spot for a check. Think small bet is most efficient

The pot is $400 and you have less than a pot size bet left. This is clearly a shove with your stack. The V hardly ever has a straight here. Checking does nothing for you I less you were 90% certain he bluffs at it.

You could make a case for making a really tiny bet to get a crying call or an induced raise...