Originally posted in low stress thread, but I'm really curious about this one, and I know I'll only get maximum three responses in that thread.

1/2, 9 handed, $500 effective. Villain can't be best described by any one player image; I would say he's mainly loose passive, but he also raises pre flop too often, and bluffs too much (not a habitual bluffer, but when he bets when checked to it's not the traditional "fold, he has it," like it is with most loose passives.) Hero has a TAG image, most likely.

OTTH

Hero opens J J CO $15, villain calls OTB, as does TAG reg in BB.


Flop ($46): T 3 2. BB checks, hero bets $30 and only villain calls.

Turn ($106): 6. Not the greatest turn card, but checking seems really bad. Hero bets $80 with the intention of folding to a raise; villain calls.

River ($266): 8.

Easy check/fold against loose passive.

I will go for value against loose passives on reasonably uncoordinated boards, like this, if I hold a spade, but not when I don't. It's useful to have non-nutted value here for bluffs and the sizing can be the same, like $120 or what not -- again, when you have a spade.

79 shouldn't be possible beyond exactly 7s9s

I would much rather bet-fold than check-fold, especially if the villain, as is described, has some bluffs in their betting range. If you give yourself permission to value-own yourself once in a while, you can extract more value with your river bets. This is a fine spot to bet something like 1/3 or 1/2 pot to get calls out of hands like T9 or QT. Even with the villain's bluffs, the money goes in better on the river if we bet than it does if we check/call.

ETA: We have something like 60% equity versus a reasonable villain range that is likely to make it this far and at least call a river bet. Villain has something like 5 flush combos, three T8s, and something like 13 top pair combos. Betting extracts value from those 13 combos more often than donating it to the other 8.

If we check, we have to consider calling to bluff-catch. If we bet, we can easily fold to a raise, because bluff-raises by players like this are far less frequent than bluff bets when checked to.

block river

175 on the tron

I'm check calling anything but an all-in over bet
let him take his A10 K10 Q10 hands and bluff like he has the flush

We block no spades and there are only hands like A5 of clubs or A5 off with ace of spades that we don’t block that would call the flop, miss both streets and possibly bluff. However, I doubt villain calls $80 on the turn with out A5 of spades which will likely raise flop. Also we block value hands we actually beat. The most obvious being J10h, J10d and J10 spades is impossible leaving one combo of that hand. Hands like A2s, A9s, 79s 56s would probably all flat on the button and continue on both streets. 1010 would probably three bet but 22 and 33 are in his range and may play this way however when a tight players fires flop and turn I feel he would raise turn with those sets as you have many value hands in your range so I feel safe saying it is unlikely he has a set. This leaves the remaining flush draws along with a very unlikely 79c and 108c that now beat us. I feel there are far too many value hands and this is a check fold on the river. Unless opponent has A10 off with the A of spades and decides you won’t call the river knowing you can’t have Ax spades there is nothing we beat on the river. Any pair will check back after so much action glad to see showdown and no draws he would call the turn with missed. Could he call flop with 56c? Yes, gutter to the nuts and back door straight draw but that folds the turn. I suppose 56c could flat pre, call the flop and make a bad call on turn after picking up a pair. But I doubt he bluffs the river but it is possible. That leaves no value hands we beat if he bets river and in my opinion only 3 bluff combos with A5 off with ace of spades, A10 with ace of spades and 56 clubs. Compared to all the flush combos and occasional 79c and very unlikely sets we beat nothing. With the jack of spades I tank and probably call. KJs, QJs, J9s and maybe an AJs that didn’t 3 bet could all continue this way we don’t block them. Or if river was Ks or As I may consider a call as so many likely combos of flush draws are eliminated. If Ks is river card we beat so much more and the likelihood of him bluffing and A10 off with ace of spades or A5 off with ace of spades becomes greater as our only value flushes become QJs and possibly Q9s. But all in all this is a fold to any bet over half pot. I think a small bet becomes a possible call as there are some bluffs in his range but we have to get a price where can call this 4 times or so to win the one time he is bluffing to get the value needed.

Check Call has to be an option here.

Really player dependent here. but given the vag description of villain hard to say.

Plan of bet/folding seems extremely weak given we have no idea of his bet sizing yet.

I still think you should go smaller pre.

Nope

Why would he ever bet top pair on the river?

I don't think we can really call anything above 1/3 pot bet on the river, because JJ isn't ahead of enough of his value range. Personally I like the 1/3 bet-fold option because we set the price, Tx is almost certainly folding, and almost no 1/2 villains are capable of bluff raising, especially rivers.

Thin value, like you are supposed to in LOLowstakes Live NL?

I disagree; the importance of trying to get a pot HU/as few people in the pot as possible way outweigh SPR considerations

not a habitual bluffer, but when he bets when checked to it's not the traditional "fold, he has it," like it is with most loose passives.)

We got 2 streets of value , I'm fine with that
If we bet , other than a 10 what would V call us with that we beat
after we've bet all 3 streets.
If we get raised everyone is saying bet/fold ( what a waste of $$$$$)
if the mentality is to toss that $$ away then do it check/ calling .

if you check when the flush gets there you are telling V you don't like it and may induce a value bet bluff from V
or if V checks back that's fine also

against a diff V I may take a diff line but based on your read of V I prefer this

Between the times he decides to go for thin value. And you stated he bluffs to much. Until I have better reads I see no reason to fold.

Cheeeeeck