Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-27-2016, 10:29 PM   #1
Joey913
old hand
 
Joey913's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pre-flop
Posts: 1,300
1/2: JJ against strange line by TAG

V($350): 55ish MAWG, decent TAG but not all that imaginative. Been playing with him for about an hour and he hasn't gotten out of line. Has played his strong hands pretty forcefully.

Hero ($325): 30ish white guy, V seems to respect my game. I've opened a lot more than anyone else at the table w/ frequent c-bets and general aggressive play, but I've never been caught bluffing.

Hero opens $10 UTG w/ JJ, UTG+1 folds, V raises to $25, folds to Hero who calls.

Flop ($50): 883 Hero checks, V also checks.

Turn ($50): 3 Hero leads $30, V raises to $60. Hero? Thoughts on all streets appreciated, as well as plan for river.
Joey913 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2016, 12:31 AM   #2
berninader
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 91
Re: 1/2: JJ against strange line by TAG

Preflop is fine.
Checking to the agressor on the flop is fine.
Turn bet size is fine.

That is a pretty weird min-raise by Villain. To me it seems like an overpair (that usually isn't AA or KK), and perhaps a stray AK. Have you ever seen him min-raise before, and if he did, what did he have (or think he had)? Has he shown a tendency to fear paired boards, because if so, AA and KK are a much bigger part of his range.

I would turn to all the physical tells throughout the hand given a lack of history on the opponent.

As played, call, with plans to check-call most rivers.

Last edited by berninader; 05-28-2016 at 12:32 AM. Reason: pronoun
berninader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2016, 01:27 AM   #3
Soner
grinder
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 430
Re: 1/2: JJ against strange line by TAG

That minraise makes no sense to me. He also only made it 2.5x of your original preflop bet. I don't see someone betting his strong hands forcefully making it only $25 with AA,KK,QQ.

I would call his min raise and CC most rivers except if it is A or K.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Soner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2016, 12:48 PM   #4
QuadJ
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,427
Re: 1/2: JJ against strange line by TAG

This is really a blind situation where villain has taken a patently absurd line. What you know about villain's play and any read you have on villain matter a lot in this sort of hand. Villain either has a big hand and is trying to get some money in the pot without folding you out or has a weak hand and is testing you to see if your turn bet was a bluff.

If you call turn you need to plan on check/calling river also. So make your decision now.
QuadJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2016, 01:13 PM   #5
bodybuilder32
old hand
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,423
Re: 1/2: JJ against strange line by TAG

Villian's line is a great line if he holds kk+. He is basically just milking you and using the fact that he checked the flop to make you think your pocket pair is good. This flop is bone dry, he really has no need to bet the flop here. If you have Ak, he knows you will fold to a flop c-bet so by checking flop he can get two streets from your overpair and possibly stack you on the river once you've called the turn min-bet.
bodybuilder32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2016, 08:31 PM   #6
GreenChipPoker
journeyman
 
GreenChipPoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: the danger zone
Posts: 253
Re: 1/2: JJ against strange line by TAG

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybuilder32 View Post
Villian's line is a great line if he holds kk+. He is basically just milking you and using the fact that he checked the flop to make you think your pocket pair is good. This flop is bone dry, he really has no need to bet the flop here. If you have Ak, he knows you will fold to a flop c-bet so by checking flop he can get two streets from your overpair and possibly stack you on the river once you've called the turn min-bet.
This is the worst line ever by Villian, absolute fish tendencies.

Alternatively, V1 raises to 30, hero calls. Hero checks V1 bets 45?? Much harder situation for hero, pot is bigger...will be in even tougher spot when turn bricks and V1 bets 65 OTT. Now we're in the exact same spot as OP except he hasn't telegraphed strength with reraise, pot is bigger and V1 can more likely polarize AK AQ hands....
GreenChipPoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2016, 09:40 PM   #7
QuadJ
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,427
Re: 1/2: JJ against strange line by TAG

I wouldn't say the worst ever, but it is pretty fishy. I see this enough from fish that it doesn't surprise me if villain had AA/KK. Once you play with villain enough you will have a good idea what these min-raises mean and can respond appropriately. These situations don't come up enough to balance them and too often villain is just telegraphing he has a big hand while giving hero odds to draw out on him when hero has a good hand and letting him off cheap when hero doesn't.

If villain has AA/KK a much better line is bet/check/bet if villain doesn't think 3 streets of value get paid. Plus, that line naturally balances itself against villain's c-bets with air and if the turn card make the board wet villain can go ahead and bet turn.
QuadJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2016, 10:10 PM   #8
BadlyBeaten
banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,303
Re: 1/2: JJ against strange line by TAG

My initial impression was that villain slowplayed the flop. I think other comments ITT support that. I suspect that it was something he noticed about you that caused him to play it that way.

The turn is very problematic because he could have a couple hands that you beat. I think the best line is to rule out AK and let go of the hand. It looks to me like he has an overpair that he wants to protect against AK.

He could have just decided to switch things up a bit OTF, and now (OTT) he decided to gain value.

Of course, this could be a bluff with AJ suited, or some other line. It could also be that he raised OTT solely because he wanted you to check OTR.
BadlyBeaten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2016, 10:20 PM   #9
jake
adept
 
jake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Markham, Canada
Posts: 797
Re: 1/2: JJ against strange line by TAG

I don't know, maybe I always assume the worst from my opponents (based on typical caliber of play)... but it just looks to me like two overcards - getting cute.

He checks flop, because he missed - then thinks that Hero's bet is a fishy bluff - which he tries to re-bluff (honestly I see ppl play like this).

However I suppose I might not be giving him enough credit... so the sane line is to call and check/call river.
jake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2016, 10:38 PM   #10
GreenChipPoker
journeyman
 
GreenChipPoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: the danger zone
Posts: 253
Re: 1/2: JJ against strange line by TAG

Quote:
Originally Posted by jake View Post
I don't know, maybe I always assume the worst from my opponents (based on typical caliber of play)... but it just looks to me like two overcards - getting cute.

He checks flop, because he missed - then thinks that Hero's bet is a fishy bluff - which he tries to re-bluff (honestly I see ppl play like this).

However I suppose I might not be giving him enough credit... so the sane line is to call and check/call river.
This.

I would wager 3:1 this is AK all day.
GreenChipPoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2016, 01:31 AM   #11
johnnyBuz
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
johnnyBuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Beast Coast
Posts: 7,037
Re: 1/2: JJ against strange line by TAG

Check turn if you don't know what to do when raised. It's a WA/WB spot.
johnnyBuz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2016, 09:02 AM   #12
Joey913
old hand
 
Joey913's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pre-flop
Posts: 1,300
Re: 1/2: JJ against strange line by TAG

Spoiler:
Joey913 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive