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1/2: JJ against all in on river 1/2: JJ against all in on river

09-17-2017 , 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man of Means
V2 was the one with the nut no-pair AK. Not sure if he's bluffing or just frustratedly throwing bad money after good.
Whoops, got the subscripts wrong. I actually like his play better with AK than AT. With AT he'd have some showdown value but AK has none here so probably just a huge bluff.
1/2: JJ against all in on river Quote
09-17-2017 , 05:37 PM
Thanks again for your thoughts everyone.

One thought I've been having - one thing that makes V2's river make some sense - he must have gotten some physical tell off me that he really felt strongly about... I'm not sure that makes the river bluff of $250 profitable though, considering he has to think V1 has his AK high beat...

As far as Jonathan Little's book - he really does suggest opening pots with these kinds of small bets, like I opened the pot for 3-4 BB w/ JJ from lojack. I've played around with a few different preflop rationales and I must say, I kind of like Jon Little's thinking... it really is forcing me to get more post flop experience, think more critically, and be more observant. I'm letting go of some preflop equity perhaps, but I feel like I'm learning how to play the later streets better, and may actually be gaining that equity back and more when my opponents are particularly weak.
1/2: JJ against all in on river Quote
09-17-2017 , 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by niapDNAedirp
Thanks again for your thoughts everyone.

One thought I've been having - one thing that makes V2's river make some sense - he must have gotten some physical tell off me that he really felt strongly about... I'm not sure that makes the river bluff of $250 profitable though, considering he has to think V1 has his AK high beat...

As far as Jonathan Little's book - he really does suggest opening pots with these kinds of small bets, like I opened the pot for 3-4 BB w/ JJ from lojack. I've played around with a few different preflop rationales and I must say, I kind of like Jon Little's thinking... it really is forcing me to get more post flop experience, think more critically, and be more observant. I'm letting go of some preflop equity perhaps, but I feel like I'm learning how to play the later streets better, and may actually be gaining that equity back and more when my opponents are particularly weak.
I know this is what he suggests as I have this book, but he is seriously misleading in how much research he spent on it.

"In preparation for this book, I spent a decent amount of time playing $1/$2 no-limit in local casinos, primarily at Borgata in Atlantic City, New Jersey...in this book I will share with you the strategies that enabled me to win at the rate of $35 per hour at $1/$2 no-limit."

Apparently "decent amount of time" means a few days. And he cites a winrate based on less than 50 hours of play.

""My sample size was somewhat small, only 30 hours or so." - Jonathan Little

This quote is not in the book but in response to a question about the book from someone else.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

Last edited by Shai Hulud; 09-17-2017 at 06:22 PM.
1/2: JJ against all in on river Quote
09-17-2017 , 06:25 PM
Ah, ok. Yeah, that's not very much time at the table to write a book on.
How is his preflop rationale flawed?
Do you have a low buy in NL book you can recommend?
1/2: JJ against all in on river Quote
09-17-2017 , 07:38 PM
I probably fold earlier in this hand. Very tough spot though. I honestly feel like I fold, ugh I can't even understand where I fold. I would suppose that I would probably play it just like hero or possibly fold the turn if I felt I was beat.

I still feel that the 3-bet from the BB is a bit wide. Another option would be to 4-bet to $75. Only recommend this specifically to squeeze out the V1 and play heads up against the BB. Might be a bit ambitious but I wouldn't mind it in a 1/2 game like this just because this gets through a decent amount and we don't need to worry. Also, sets up a solid post flop play for this exact board. C-bet and take it down when they flat. I feel that line probably ends up playing more comfortable in low stakes post flop play since if it gets to post flop with the 4 bet line, they are essentially playing face up. Only recommending that because we would be able to squeeze V1 out
1/2: JJ against all in on river Quote
09-17-2017 , 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by V3ttz3ao
I probably fold earlier in this hand. Very tough spot though. I honestly feel like I fold, ugh I can't even understand where I fold. I would suppose that I would probably play it just like hero or possibly fold the turn if I felt I was beat.
That's the thing that's aggravating about this hand is that hero made the big mistake of putting in half a stack before folding, rather than the smaller mistake of folding on the flop.

It could be that we're calling the flop because we think the rest of the hand will be easy to play (it's a protected pot) but villain got the best of us here.
1/2: JJ against all in on river Quote
09-17-2017 , 09:35 PM
We started this hand 250bb eff. I'm a little surprised no one is really talking about r/f here. My first thought was 85/f pre. This almost always ends this hand. If V calls I bet all non A/K flop and fold or check from here. If A or K flop, c/f.
1/2: JJ against all in on river Quote
09-17-2017 , 09:57 PM
once v2 bets 90 I feel like you should lean on letting it go otf, if he seems to be pretty solid (I guess sort of player dependent)., youd still have v1 and v2 to beat while v2 is still 500 eff otf
1/2: JJ against all in on river Quote
09-18-2017 , 01:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man of Means
That's the thing that's aggravating about this hand is that hero made the big mistake of putting in half a stack before folding, rather than the smaller mistake of folding on the flop.

It could be that we're calling the flop because we think the rest of the hand will be easy to play (it's a protected pot) but villain got the best of us here.
The "amount of your stack" that you put in and lose is irrelevant. This is cash, not tournament play. You playing jj, the 4th best starting hand in the game, purely for set mining value? Folding flop is extremely weak, exploitable play. It's not playing fit or fold, it's playing fit & fold.
1/2: JJ against all in on river Quote
09-18-2017 , 01:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by niapDNAedirp
Ah, ok. Yeah, that's not very much time at the table to write a book on.
How is his preflop rationale flawed?
Do you have a low buy in NL book you can recommend?
His preflop rationale is flawed because while it's mathematically correct to pull players into a pot preflop with worse hands, there are 3 more streets to come and you may end up putting large amounts of $ into the pot later drawing almost dead. His logic is basically "people are bad postflop, I'll outplay them." He thinks players will always let you know when you're behind, he's wrong. Most of the time you'll flop top pair 5 ways and not know what to do with it.

The fact that he played 30-50 hours to develop this book is laugable, didn't know this. I've always thought that his low stakes advice was terrible, now I know why. His winrate is irrelevant, I've had 30h stretches of $100/hr and smaller stretches losing at the same rate. This sample size is completely irrelevant.
1/2: JJ against all in on river Quote
09-18-2017 , 11:00 AM
Hey guys, refer up a few posts to my previous one. The second short paragraph regarding a possible 4-bet squeeze. I know that it would not be ideal in a vacuum, but specifically for this hand against these villains it would seem +EV more often than not given that the V2 flat range is very likely weaker than our JJ, combined with the 3-bet from BB specifically which could be wider than the only three premiums would be ahead (turns out coin flip).

I would just like to open that possible line for analysis to help hero see all options from the beginning if viable. I would not usually recommend 4! JJ ever, but as a squeeze here with these positions and villains. I don't mind it.
1/2: JJ against all in on river Quote

      
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