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1/2 - How much should I bet on the river? 1/2 - How much should I bet on the river?

05-04-2015 , 04:39 PM
1.2 NL at casino
Sat down recently. 9 handed. I have $250. I have been playing more loose than the rest of the table. Some are very tight and seem concerned about money. Lots of limps with weak hands. I have been opening pots in position more often than others and betting more often in general. I have won a few when I had a good hand, and lost some when had to fold because I was bliffing.

V 1: One of the few players not playing overly tight. He has about $350. Has shown that he is willing to gamble when he called off a $50 PF shove from short stack w QJs.

V2: Has about $150. Shoved 10 high rainbow flop w AJo and I called with A 10. He hit a J on the turn and won the pot. Some rivalry because after this hand there was a hand where I raised IP w 35o and triple barreled wet K high board and got V to fold river. He showed K4 and I showed the bluff.

V1 raises to $12, V2 calls, I call from BB with A9

Flop comes 6710

I decide to lead out for $17. V1 and V2 both call.

Turn: 8

I check, V1 checks, V2 bets $22, I raise to $50, V1 folds.

River: 2 I go all in.

Villain tanks for a long time, says 'great river for my hand, only question is if he has 9'. He eventually folds. I feel like I should have made a more value sized bet on river. I was honestly afraid of J9 and I have a bad habit of shoving when I have a 2nd or 3rd nut hand. I was afraid of betting like $65 and then getting shoved on. I guess it would only be for $40-$50 more because of villains stack size but I would have hated to call it off.

Seems like and easy value bet/call shove on river now that I am looking back, but in the moment I was afraid of the nuts and just shoved. I was pretty sure I had the best hand and that V had something to pay me off with but I think I bet too much. May have looked like a bluff if I had chosen to size the bet differently.
1/2 - How much should I bet on the river? Quote
05-04-2015 , 04:50 PM
I think it'd be helpful if you added the pot size.

On the flop you bluffed with less than a half-pot sized bet.

Then on the turn you check-raised about 1/5th pot.

Why did you choose those extremely small bet-sizes and then decide to shove the river?
1/2 - How much should I bet on the river? Quote
05-04-2015 , 04:51 PM
Why on earth is river anything other than a shove? V2 has $70 in front of him according to your chip stack. Is the $150 amount in the OP wrong? Because, if not, the pot is $187 and he has about $70 in front of him. The river is trivial.

I don't know how you could bet $65 and then get shoved on. Please review your post for accuracy.

Oh and checking the turn there is gross. What was your plan?
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05-04-2015 , 04:52 PM
there is like 180 in the pot and V has like 70 left... why would you bet anything other than > V2s chip stack here??

flop i would c/r. checking through is great for you if it does. c/r because you have a ton of outs if called.

i would not c/r this turn after leading the flop. i would just lead out.
1/2 - How much should I bet on the river? Quote
05-04-2015 , 04:59 PM
Bet sizes and stack sizes are my best estimates. V2 had $115 on the river, I know that for sure. I checked the turn because I thought someone else would bet and I was planning to CR. V2 was pretty stabby, as you can see from the hand where he tried to steal the pot with 2 overs on a 10 high board.
1/2 - How much should I bet on the river? Quote
05-05-2015 , 03:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sethnoorzad
Bet sizes and stack sizes are my best estimates. V2 had $115 on the river, I know that for sure. I checked the turn because I thought someone else would bet and I was planning to CR. V2 was pretty stabby, as you can see from the hand where he tried to steal the pot with 2 overs on a 10 high board.
So V has roughly $115 and the pot is $180 on the river.

Bet slightly larger and the river plays itself.

As played your river shove is a 64% pot size bet which sounds standard.
1/2 - How much should I bet on the river? Quote
05-05-2015 , 06:08 AM
Grunch

Not sure what you were trying to accomplish with flop bet. If you are trying to make them fold you need to bet more than half the pot. 2/3 would be the minimum. Even still, on a draw heavy board against these two they are not folding that often to a donk bet. A check/raise would look stronger and even if he has an overpair and calls you probably have 12outs twice. I like a check/raise here to something like 3/4 of the pot.. If the flop checks though I am betting 2/3 of the pot on most turns. As played bet the turn for christ sakes. Your hand is concealed and you have two interested customers. Since you bet 1/2 pot on flop I would do the same on the turn so as not to be suspicious and to encourage action. Villian will only have like 75 left on river which will be less than half the pot so shove. As played I guess a shove is fine against these particulars. Villian might make a crying call without a 9 given your previous hand together.
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05-05-2015 , 06:59 AM
pre is burning money unless utg is a special type of whale. the QJs example isn't enough imo. your hand is generally garbage OOP only 125 bbs deep

c/r flop
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05-05-2015 , 01:38 PM
Knowing the positions of the villain would be helpful. In other words, where did v1 open raise from? You can make a case for folding pre, but you're closing the action with a hand that if you flop well you can win a biggish pot against V1. The counter is that it is hard to make money from the blinds, so folding pre is probably better. Depending on where V1 opens from I might 3 bet squeeze here too. Much of his is dependent upon whether or not you can get away from a 1 pair hand.

If V1 has a high Cbet frequency, then check raising the flop seems optimal.

Regarding the turn, you have to maximize value here. So whether you c/r because you believe one of the villain will bet or lead because they will call is a live intangible you have to figure out. Either way you should sizing so the river is easier to play.
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