First time at a home game. I'm a limit LAGTAG trying to learn NL so I can play in the home games and drive an hour to the rake traps less often. Plus to make friends.

Anywho

UTG+2 is a bit of a LAG. Raises big preflop widely and I caught him double barreling on a wet flop when I had 2nd pair.

BTN is pretty tight. Not much on reads other than that.

It's 1/2 and I have something like $270 behind and both villains have me covered.

10-handed
Pre-flop:
UTG+2 opens to $10 (standard for him)
I flat JcTc
BTN flats
blinds fold

Flop:
Kc4cTd
UTG+2 opens for $20
Hero?

Calling or 3 betting is fine pre - I would honestly lean towards a $35 3 bet here though.

Flop is just a flat. We beat all of UTG +2's cbet bluffs, which we would make him fold to a raise, and if we're behind either player we have great equity.

I've literally never played limit hold 'em in my life so I have no idea how this differentiates from limit strategy.

In case you want to know, in limit def fold pre fold or 3 bet and raise flop.

Forgot to add I was HJ here.

JTs is squarely in the call range. 3 bet only causes worse to fold (J9, J8, T9, T8, etc.) and better to call or raise, and you block relatively few hands that are ahead (AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, AK, AQ, KQ, AJ, KJ, QJ, QT).

Flop is a flat bc you have sdv against lower pocket pairs, you don't want them folding, and you need to protect against few overcards (A and Q only). You also have outs to a better hand if you are behind (clubs, J, T, straight).

He mentioned villain is raising pre wide, even from EP. I can already think of hands that are ahead of us that would such as KJo. In addition, we don't mind being called because our hand has a lot of playability and we certainly aren't shallow stacked, but also because a lot of pots will go otf x-b-f.

I flat pre-flop. Good hand for multi-way and we have position on IR.

I flat the flop. This guy likes to double-barrel, so let him. We have a pair and a good draw and I'm OK if BTN comes along. If BTN raises, we have something to think about.

(OP, please put pot sizes on each street.)

yeah, easy flat with 100+ bb behind and a laggy opponent. plus we have the button to worry about -- what are we doing if he raises?

I think calling pre is better than 3betting, the fact that EP is opening too wide just makes it an easier call. We would hate to 3bet and have to fold to a 4bet with a hand that has a great mix of frequent strength + nut potential. Plus, we don't mind others entering the pot as it improves the implied odds when we flop our big hands/draws.

AP flop is a call IP w/ SDV + plenty of ways to improve on turn and river

What does sdv stand for?

Showdown value

Tx will win at showdown sometimes (probably a sizable % of the time) on dry runouts where the flush misses

a hand like 87cc is more inclined to raise and realize fold equity because it cannot win at showdown the 60+% of the time we don't make a flush

Quote from a later chapter in the grinders manual:

"SDV has been a very frequently recurring factor throughout the manual. The trend is clear: the less SDV Hero has, the more inclined he should be to bluff provided there is the expectation of some fold equity. Bad showdown value hands gain much more EV than good SDV hands do by bluffing since they almost never win the pot unimproved at showdown. The fold equity that a bluff or semi-bluff reaps for low SDV hands is precious as it turns a hand that usually loses into one that wins X% of the time where X is fold equity plus any sliver of SDV Hero might pick up on the river. Hands with greater SDV don't jump so drastically in EV when they bluff. If a hand already wins 40% of the time without fold equity, it is not much use to make 40% of Villain's range fold. That 40% is almost certainly the same chunk that Hero was already beating at showdown. Hero does however, in the process of turning the hand into a misguided bluff, lose more money against the stronger parts of Villain's range that aren't folding"

It's been a couple days and this post was really relevant to my thoughts after the hand.

Yep, nailed it. The other thing to notice about this board is that we have VERY few value raises on this flop. We don't have AA KK AK whereas UTG+2 does, and TT we may 3bet at some frequency (probably a high one if V is relatively loose). So by raising this flop we are mostly repping KTs and 44, a meager 5 combos. If I'm Villain I'm continuing quite wide vs this raise or 3betting to put your likely FDs in a ****ty spot