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1/2 - Highest EV line with TPGK+FD

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07-25-2013 , 09:30 PM

BenT07891

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,641

Reads: Seems decent TAG based on ~1 hour of observation. Immediate history: I 3-bet him for value pre from the BB once with AJs. He 4bet shoved for 60BBs and I folded.

He opens for $11 UTG+1. Folds to me and I flat with K

and BB flats. Flop comes Q

. $175 effective. He leads for $20 into $33. Hero's highest EV line?

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07-25-2013 , 09:36 PM

nuknuk420

newbie

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 45

i tend to lean toward just calling...raising makes no sense here as your not gonna get better to fold and your gonna fold out every other hand your beating...against real bad players that would stack off with worse on this type of board i dont mind a raise but i think mostly people over play this spot and calling on this flop is the best route to take

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07-25-2013 , 09:38 PM

BenT07891

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,641

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuknuk420

I've actually seen players fold KK in this spot...I think there's a non-zero chance he might fold KK, AA, or AQ. I agree that the average player is not folding these hands though.

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07-25-2013 , 09:39 PM

Redskins 47

adept

Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 1,103

Can't over play this spot, easy raise. Make it $60-70.

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07-25-2013 , 09:56 PM

Pay4Myschool

Haz Chuck Norris 4 Dad

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 7,462

I don't quite understand 3bet/folding for value for 60bb... doesn't compute really. Also worth mentioning is a 3bet/fold needs to become a 3bet/ sigh call off due to math purposes if you are 50bb. Just a thought, so 3betting here without calling it off for 60bb seems close tough.

Umm I think if your OP is truley correct that you can get a couple better folds a 5+% of the time it's a raise/call spot. Can't really mess up this hand much for less than 100bb. Nice flop.

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07-25-2013 , 10:22 PM

El Nino 1

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,018

When we called pre with QKhh, we would of had a wet dream if someone would of given this flop. For anything under 100bb, lets raise and get it in as soon as possible. If we dont take the aggressive action on the flop, what do you want to do on the turn, fold ?

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07-25-2013 , 11:24 PM

Lapidator

LLSNL Frequent Flyer

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 13,762

No advice is possible without stack sizes.

ETA... Ah.. just saw, $175 effective...

I think you have to raise. I probably make it $65 and try to get it in by the turn.

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07-25-2013 , 11:25 PM

Lapidator

LLSNL Frequent Flyer

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 13,762

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenT07891

I've actually seen players fold KK in this spot...I think there's a non-zero chance he might fold KK, AA, or AQ. I agree that the average player is not folding these hands though.

Just because it is possible, doesn't make it likely. Very few players are folding KK+ here.

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07-25-2013 , 11:33 PM

wj94

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 7,951

Make it $60 and shove any turn card if he flats and checks turn.

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07-26-2013 , 12:22 AM

#10

DaYu

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,279

Don't 3bet AJss against a 60bb stack... unless villain is a donk and you're looking to stack off.

3bet / folding to a 60bb shove is not a good play.

also, no 'TAG' is sitting with 60bb to begin with.

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07-26-2013 , 05:26 AM

#11

minimals

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 252

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaYu

Pretty much as im reading this thread and thinking what to post I get to this and it completely sums up everything

Why are you three betting a 60bb stack if you don't want to call?
What good TAGs play 60bb stacks without topping off?
Short stacking at the average 1-2 game is a huge sign of weakness.

Min raise here and shove turn.

Easy Peesy.

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07-26-2013 , 07:35 AM

#12

Az0r_au

adept

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 941

Fwiw the game I play has a max BI of 66bb.

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07-26-2013 , 09:33 AM

#13

derada4

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,544

If we raise this flop and get called, our Q is no good and/or our K outs are not clean, and we are really just playing a naked FD, AMIRITE?

And yeah OP, why would you 3bet AJs for value OOP against who you think is a solid TAG? And why would you call his UTG open with KQ also? And why do you think someone with 60bb's is a solid TAG?

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimals

Min raise here and shove turn.

Easy Peesy.

This is terrible. Totally blows our chances of getting better to fold.

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07-26-2013 , 09:36 AM

#14

11t

Bo Pelini's #1 Fan

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 31,420

How do you play this hand right? Don't fold.

I am flatting here versus an UTG+1 range

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07-26-2013 , 09:39 AM

#15

Pay4Myschool

Haz Chuck Norris 4 Dad

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 7,462

Quote:

Originally Posted by derada4

OP thinks short stacking is good at $1/2, so he's not judgemental on short stackers.

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07-29-2013 , 07:29 PM

#16

BenT07891

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,641

Results: I raise to $100, he shoves, I call. He shows A

and it holds up.

Actual EV of my move = slightly negative EV but almost neutral EV.

Theoretical EV of my move = probably slightly +EV, maybe in the +$10 to $50 range. In reality, he probably folds at least 20% of the time (he could have JJ-1010 or even AK or worse).

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