V1 ($300) in SB.
Hero ($300) in MP.
V2 ($200) in LP.

It's within the first orbit of a new table, so no real specific reads, but the table has been super limpy/loosey preflop, aka bingo poker .

Preflop: 2 limps. Hero raises to $5 straight with 99. V2 calls in LP, along with V1 and SB and 5 other callers . Sweet! 8 players to flop.

Flop ($40): K J 9.

Yahtzee!

Checked to hero who leads for $30. No sense in slowplaying here, lol.

V2 calls in LP. Folded to V1 in SB who c-raises to $80.

Pot is now 40 + 30 + 30 + 30 = $130 and it's $50 more to call.

V1 has $215 behind. Hero has $265 behind and V2 has $165 behind.

Hero?


Some thoughts after running some ranges through equity calculator...
V is unlikely to have KK. JJ is a slight possibility. QT is obviously a possibility, but so is KJ, J9, K9. or two big spades (maybe?).

Against a range of:

1. JJ,KJ,K9,QT,J9 hero has 53.5% equity.

2. If we add in some big spades, such as AQs or some medium spades such as 67s, our equity remains pretty similar.

What do you guys think of that range? too tight?

P.S. I am pretty sure that this situation has come up a ton in the forums...

Hero piles it in on the flop and expects to be ahead a big portion of the time. Even if we run into Q10 for the nutz we have decent amount of equity and many outs to boat up. Most important is we owns all two pair combos, and on this flop its countless of two pair combos of hands people play all the time. K9, J9,KJ and so on. With the preflop action considered we are pretty much never beat by a bigger set either.

Pro tip: try to control your boner when you announce allin

At this wet of a board and several villains in the hand i cant see any reason for not getting it in right here on the flop.

Edit: Much bigger preflop by the way,especially after limpers shown interest in the pot.12-15$ is fine.

+1

*Chanting* GII! GII!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using 2+2 Forums

hahaha thanks gilmoure and qure. I had edited my post to show some hand ranges that I ran; I didn't see you two had replied so quickly.

If you're trying to make a "sweeten the pot" type raise, wouldn't going to $7 pf since it accomplishes the same as the $5 raise.

Pot: Isn't the pot now $180 after the c/r?

The money is going to get in, might as well do the shoving now.

It has and usually everyone says shove.

One or two people might point out that if you shove you'll probably cause anyone who is drawing to runner-runner outs (like someone with TPTK) to fold. After they fold they often don't even thank for the money you're saving them by allowing them to fold their hand that's going to win 3.5% of the time.

+1

Also, preflop raise to 5 with 2 limpers makes me want to puke. youre begging for a family pot basically.

Raise to $12 pre....9s are too good of a hand to just set mine.

I'd just shove on the turn. If you just call, you're only going to have ~ a PSB bet left anyways.

I'm all about the "pot builder" raise with spec hands. To me, the "pot builder" is the new limp.

Having said that, I'm raising this to $8-10. 99 has showdown value and can flop to overpair on low flops. I'd rather thin the field so I can go aggro if the right flop comes. As played: ARRRRRR INNNNNN!

Agree with Gil 100%

V has WAY more combos of hands we beat then hands that actually beat us and is unlikely to fold anything.

if you stop-n-go you stand a better chance of sucking V2 into the hand and stacking both on dry turns. if V1 c/r flop, betting out on safe turns pretty much guarantees a call at the minimum.

I've been thinking the same thing. I was considering starting a new thread, but since someone else brought up........

I've been doing the "pot builder" raises from the blinds with mid PPs. I figure hands like 66-99 are much better than the hands that people limp with, so there's value to be had.

For example, 6 people limp and I'm in the big blind with 99. Lately, I've been raising $5 additional ($7 total). No one is ever folding for $5. We're getting value against all the A2s, 89s, 56o type hands. Even if we wind up c/f the flop, I still it's right to get more money in pre because of all the crap people limp with.

If we make a normal sized pfr out of the blinds, then it's a trickier spot. Yeah, we probably have the best hand with 99 in the BB, but we're unlikely to flop a 9 and we'll be playing the entire hand OOP and there's likely to be overcards.

I still raise 99 a normal amount IP because there's a lot more ways to win the pot; but these days I'm raising mid PPs very small from the blinds. Maybe it's not optimal. I don't know.

Definately agree with a shove here.

For as the PF action, I would definately open for more than $5 here- im with the $12-$15 people.

Now, far as the discussion on pot sweetening vs. normal PF raises. If we are going to make a PF raise from the blinds with a PP to sweeten the pot, dont we also want to try to range the limpers on something?

If you get 5 limpers, and you throw in an extra redbird from the BB to make it 7, they are going to all automatically call without thought, and now not only are we OOP after the flop, we really wont have a clue where we are at in this 6 way practically limped pot. I feel like making the normal raise with a PP out of the blinds, can still help us play the hand post flop.

lol shoving is the only thing we can do

OK, thanks all for the replies.

I see we have some differing views on pre-flop raises with midpairs.. but the majority opinion seems to be to shove the flop, with a minority saying to flat the flop and shove/bet the turn.

Here's the spoiler.

I like it. Do you really want to flop a set of 6's with 4bb's in the middle? Time and again I see on this forum "Limping baby pp's to setmine is fine". I disagree. If I hit gin, I want to start firing away without a ridic overbet which'll chase away all the hands we want to get value from. I figure doing this pays for itself because if we're going to play for a raise (albeit a small one), we won't be tempted to limp wildly speculative hands we're almost certain to x/f otf and bleed our stack.