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Old 05-31-2014, 11:01 PM   #1
shrewsbury91
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1/2 Hero call this river?

$1/2 at Foxwoods, I have played with this V at another casino before; he is known as a LAG capable of making moves and calling pre-flop raises with mediocre hands only to try and outplay his opponents post-flop. He is white and in his mid to late 20s with some facial hair. The only history between us was a few months ago where I had Q9 and the flop was 956cc and a another player donked for $15, I raised to $45 and V went all-in for $150 which I called. The board bricked, and V mucks A8. I am not sure he recognizes me elsewhere. I believe he views me as a TAG. UTG+2 in the hand is pretty passive but is a non-factor in the hand.

Here's the hand:

Hero has $220 with K9 (V barely covers)

2 limps, V limps, Hero raises to $13 in CO, UTG+2 calls, V calls

Flop($40): 6 2 4

Check, V checks, Hero bets $25, 2 calls

Turn($90) 9

V checks, Hero bets $55, V calls

River($200) A

V instantly says all-in, bets $145

Hero tanks for 2 minutes, and V shows one card, the 5 and says for me to fold.
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Old 05-31-2014, 11:13 PM   #2
GrindPokerAllDay
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Re: 1/2 Hero call this river?

Without a good read fold. Seems like A5dd trying to get a call...maybe 35dd. If he has 57dd then I'll tell him very nice hand. I don't expect a player to be bluffing 65dd like this.

(albeit, this is the perfect spot to use White Magic...if villain is receptive to showing a card he's probably receptive to conversing as well).
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Old 05-31-2014, 11:47 PM   #3
vjniel
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The flop bet was unnecessary you could have bet the turn so the pot would not have become big like this
You need to follow small hand small pot theory this is a clear fold even against his lag image
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Old 06-01-2014, 01:29 AM   #4
Flatbarrel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vjniel View Post
The flop bet was unnecessary you could have bet the turn so the pot would not have become big like this
You need to follow small hand small pot theory this is a clear fold even against his lag image
Sent from my Micromax A96 using 2+2 Forums
Agreed. I wouldnt bet total air into 2 peopleone of which V as described.

But as played, it seems very tempting to call even without the speech and card show.

For A5 even the bet is still weird for pure value.

Id choose to ignore all other info and decide based on hand analysis, which i think warrants a call. He hasnt raised and all draws missed.
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Old 06-01-2014, 01:39 AM   #5
de4df1sh
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Re: 1/2 Hero call this river?

I don't like a hero call just on pot odds alone, he has to be bluffing here a ton for this to be +EV

despite the bizarre line, would he ever tell you to fold and show you a seemingly innocuous if we actually wanted you to fold?

I don't think so because when he shows us a card we can narrow his range. when he shows us the 5d this eliminates some value hands from his range and if hes trying to bluff us he wants to rep as wide of a value range as possible.

Theres definitely some leveling going on here. I don't know if hes leveling us or himself.

Im going to sit in my hot tub and think about this one.
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Old 06-01-2014, 01:49 AM   #6
johnnyBuz
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Re: 1/2 Hero call this river?

PF raise is too small and not a good board to c-bet on, especially since your c-bet is on the small side and has straight draws and flush draws out there which your small PF raise has priced in. He very well could have floated thinking you are FOS and spiked an Ace or already has the nuts. I'm folding here.
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Old 06-01-2014, 02:12 AM   #7
de4df1sh
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Re: 1/2 Hero call this river?

I've decided that we can call.

lets stipulate that villians value hands will be A5dd and 53dd and his bluffs will be 56dd 57dd 54dd and 55. Thats 2 value hand combos and 9 bluffs.

If villian is capable of playing off-suit connectors that adds more bluffs into his range as well as a FEW more value hands and if this is the case is actually slightly better for us.

given the roughly 2.3-1 to call we have plenty of pot odds to call this.

Furthermore, the open shove on the river looks like a desperation bluff where the villian cannot get this river checked back or he loses.

WARNING: This advice is only applicable if villian is capable of open shoving these bluff hands on this river.
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Old 06-01-2014, 08:41 AM   #8
ValueBluff
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Villain flopped a pair and straight draw, turned a flush draw with it and bricked out. Your hand looks very much like an over pair and the ace is a good scare card. Call.
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Old 06-01-2014, 10:49 AM   #9
owlberteinstein
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I don't think he's on total air. He might have A5dd but it seems like he's selling 5d3d. Such a weird card to show. If he is bluffing it's most likely with 5d5x which would make the most sense. I'm going to rule out 5d3d because we would have heard about it earlier.

If he had A5dd he probably would have put in a raise on the turn. It wouldn't make much sense to show a card with this hand after hitting the ace.

Since he showed a card and told you to fold I'm going to put him on 5d5x and call.
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Old 06-01-2014, 12:32 PM   #10
IceWater
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Re: 1/2 Hero call this river?

Usually when players act super fast on a river card like this its a bluff. Or at least the river didn't help him. If the A hit him he would probably at least take take a second or 2 to figure out how much value he can get.

Not having been there its harder to judge him showing the 5, but I get the impression he is literally begging for a fold. I would call.
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Old 06-01-2014, 08:07 PM   #11
eldiesel
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Re: 1/2 Hero call this river?

That's not a flop I'd c-bet MW with K9ss.

I'd fold otr.
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Old 06-01-2014, 08:40 PM   #12
venice10
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Re: 1/2 Hero call this river?

One of the thing you want to work on is recognizing what are good flops to cbet MW and which are not. A low card FD is about the worst. You've never getting 77+ to fold, along with the FD.

In the end, I fall back on Mike Caro's advice: If a villain wants you to do something, disappoint them. I'll call and just reload.
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Old 06-02-2014, 02:54 AM   #13
jesse123
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Re: 1/2 Hero call this river?

I'd focus more on pot control post flop. V doesn't sound like the kind of guy that folds to c-bets very easily anyways.

His card show looks pretty polarizing to me. It's either 53 or nothing. No reason to play for stacks with K9 and one pair though. I'd fold.
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Old 06-02-2014, 03:38 AM   #14
vjniel
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Re: 1/2 Hero call this river?

put yourself in villain's shoes, he would be playing 5,3 only to stack people like this, of course he will have 1/3 bluffs, but a good laydown is what is needed here.
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Old 06-02-2014, 05:06 AM   #15
sheled007
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Re: 1/2 Hero call this river?

I have to say fold, even if its a bluff.
you shouldnt have bet the flop, and should have called a raise OTF. just end the hand right there.
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