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1/2 Good Hero Call Down or Punt? 1/2 Good Hero Call Down or Punt?

01-10-2020 , 03:18 PM
Hey, I still haven't gotten back into the 2/5 grind, as I'm trying to make a couple of grand at 1/2 first to instil my confidence back. 1/2, 9 handed, $300 effective. Villain is a losing LAG with a big ego, but also isn't clueless; villain is a super station to c bets, and will call with complete air regularly just to try and bluff a later street. Hero has a winning TAG image to villain.

OTTH

Hero opens LJ $15 A J and only villain calls in BB.

Flop ($31): 8 3 2. Villain checks and hero checks back. This is a flop that I'm range betting vs 95%ish of villains. From Flopzilla analysis though, we can realistically expect villain to continue ~80% of the time (calling all of his A high, K high, and draws including gutshots.)

Turn ($31): 7. Villain bets $20 and hero calls. Villain doesn't have sizing tells (at least afaIk), and is going to be super aggressive vs a flop x back. Am I right in thinking that unblocking all of the straight and flush draws that folding AJ here vs this villain type is too weak?

River ($71): K. Villain bets $75 and hero calls. This card should connect a lot better with hero than it did with villain. Villain's story is not adding up at all. Literally every draw bricked. I don't expect villain to ever have any 2p with a K in it, because while he plays stupid hands like K8s and K7s vs raises, he's well aware that hero is tight and I know he's not dumb enough to go HU OOP vs hero with those kinds of hands. I honestly don't expect villain to expect me to call the turn with AK either, so if he had a hand like 87, I would expect him to choose a more value-y size like $40 otr. Is my reasoning sound or am I just talking myself into thinking I made a good call down? Oh, and I'm completely aware that this is NOT how we make the plurality of our money, but I also don't want to get pushed around by this villain.
1/2 Good Hero Call Down or Punt? Quote
01-10-2020 , 04:27 PM
I still prefer flop bet.

If I'm putting money in on the river it's with a raise.

As played just fold turn imo.
1/2 Good Hero Call Down or Punt? Quote
01-10-2020 , 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
I still prefer flop bet.

If I'm putting money in on the river it's with a raise.

As played just fold turn imo.
Why do you prefer a flop bet if you're uncomfortable calling down with A high? He's calling so wide on the flop, and then after we check turn, he's going to be betting the river at a pretty high frequency.
1/2 Good Hero Call Down or Punt? Quote
01-10-2020 , 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsevenoff
Why do you prefer a flop bet if you're uncomfortable calling down with A high? He's calling so wide on the flop, and then after we check turn, he's going to be betting the river at a pretty high frequency.
Who says we're checking turn?

And who says we're only calling river?

I prefer a flop bet to keep initiative in the hand and keep my range open for later streets.
1/2 Good Hero Call Down or Punt? Quote
01-10-2020 , 04:46 PM
People that peel flop too wide vs me usually hate their life by the river unimproved.
1/2 Good Hero Call Down or Punt? Quote
01-10-2020 , 04:48 PM
Interesting. So you'd say it's profitable to do a lot of triple barrels on dry boards vs these kinds of opponents? By the way, I agree raise river > call river as well. I don't know why I didn't raise the river in the moment.
1/2 Good Hero Call Down or Punt? Quote
01-10-2020 , 04:52 PM
ime if they are peeling super wide, then yes.
1/2 Good Hero Call Down or Punt? Quote
01-10-2020 , 05:00 PM
The thing for me is I actually play tight holdings pf. But I blast off on a lot of boards and overbet lots of rivers with a variety of stuff

So loose villains like him are gonna have a bad day if they keep calling flop and turn with bottom pair or gutters and they're holding 3rd pair on the river often.

The reason people get owned is because they don't put any pressure on wide calling ranges and just let these loose players realize equity with marginal hands at 100% and
showdown their hands.

And then the one time you start bet bet betting all they do is just fold those few times.
1/2 Good Hero Call Down or Punt? Quote
01-10-2020 , 05:00 PM
What about when they're the biggest stations LLSNL has to offer? This guy isn't quite that, but there are some semi regs I play with that are. This is a bit different, but say we're up against one of those opponents and they're only sitting on 50 BB and we c bet the flop, then shove turn, and they're calling with any pair because "I know you didn't have shite, I put you on AK."?
1/2 Good Hero Call Down or Punt? Quote
01-10-2020 , 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsevenoff
What about when they're the biggest stations LLSNL has to offer? This guy isn't quite that, but there are some semi regs I play with that are. This is a bit different, but say we're up against one of those opponents and they're only sitting on 50 BB and we c bet the flop, then shove turn, and they're calling with any pair because "I know you didn't have shite, I put you on AK."?
Yeah of course adjust based on villains and stack sizes accordingly.

You have to have it more than you don't obviously. But you also have to bet TP like a maniac as well for this style to work properly.

If you play a pot control style unless you have the nuts, then yeah just check and give up these spots.
1/2 Good Hero Call Down or Punt? Quote
01-10-2020 , 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
The thing for me is I actually play tight holdings pf. But I blast off on a lot of boards and overbet lots of rivers with a variety of stuff

So loose villains like him are gonna have a bad day if they keep calling flop and turn with bottom pair or gutters and they're holding 3rd pair on the river often.

The reason people get owned is because they don't put any pressure on wide calling ranges and just let these loose players realize equity with marginal hands at 100% and
showdown their hands.

And then the one time you start bet bet betting all they do is just fold those few times.
You're definitely looser than me pre. I am looking for a bigger winrate (even though I am "crushing" 1/2), and my double and triple barreling frequencies should probably go up. I'm just always thinking "this is not how you make money at 1/2 because everyone calls way too wide.'
1/2 Good Hero Call Down or Punt? Quote
01-10-2020 , 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
Yeah of course adjust based on villains and stack sizes accordingly.

You have to have it more than you don't obviously. But you also have to bet TP like a maniac as well for this style to work properly.

If you play a pot control style unless you have the nuts, then yeah just check and give up these spots.
I'm gonna take your advice. Thank you.
1/2 Good Hero Call Down or Punt? Quote
01-10-2020 , 05:08 PM
Yeah for sure you can play a tight value bet method.

It's fine.

Your c bet frequency should probably go way down if you're ever going to fire turns wirhout having it.

I'd probably use a check back flop delayed c bet strat in that case.
1/2 Good Hero Call Down or Punt? Quote

      
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