1/2 game:

villain 1: came to the table about an hour back. makes big raises preflop $20. gets most ppl to fold. and very aggressive post flop as well. hasn't shown down too many hands and he has had the nuts when he did. ($350)

villain 2: tight passive player, on his second buy in ($170)

hero: by far the tightest player at the table. many have commented to this. run his stack up from $100 to $600.

OTTH

villain 1: MP: raises $15
hero: CO: calls with 5h4h
villain 2: button: calls

should I raise here? I figure this is a speculative had. I have position.

flop: 2s3ckh ($45)

villain 1 checks, hero check, villain 2 bets $30
Villain 1 call, I call

turn: Jh ($135)

villain 1 leads out for $30
hero calls
villain 2 raises all in $125
villain 1 calls (he has $180 left, i have him covered)

pot now is $385

so action on me, i have just picked up a flush draw with my open ended straight draw

options? thoughts?

I'm obviously behind at this point. one might have a higher flush draw which i was worried about. i think one of them already has a set. One of them could have high pair.

Assuming if my flush and straight outs are all alive, I have a little less than 30% equity against a set.

I'm getting direct odds to call I believe with potential of $180 more if I hit the river from villain 1.

I think folding is an option if a higher flush draw is in play.
I don't think shoving here is an option since villain 2 is already all in and getting villain 1 off isn't changing much.

calling seems to make the most sense but it's less than 30% equity so I'm not sure.

thoughts? thank you

PF is fine as long as you don't over do it and only in position.
3 bet is maybe ok since V1's opens are wide as you say and your image is tight but also depends how sticky he is pf and post. But never 3 bet hands like this vs fish, only 3 bet a linear value range.

Just call the turn, nothing else for you to do and olay straightforward in the river.

Preflop is horrible there’s no two ways around it

are you suggesting that I fold? if yes, are low suited connectors just a bad idea to play even in position?

thanks

No that's not true at all. You are 175bb deep in position. It's completely fine. it's only bad if you are terrible post flop.

If i was shallower, then I would fold this every time. But I figure with someone that I feel will over value big pairs, it may work out.

but i'm willing to learn.

Basically this. It’s a little better OTB, but even then the vast majority players wont show a profit flatting 5 high from the CO or even OTB, whether they want to believe it or not. It doesnt matter if you’re 170bb deep.

1) you hardly ever have the nuts when all the money goes in postflop (overstraighted/overflushed/over-tripped
2) you have 5 high
3) you dont have absolute position, and if BTN calls he will own you a lot IP
4) you can get squeezed
5) the raise size is really huge to flat vs profitably
6) you have 5 high. Just fold
7) being able to draw to the nuts in deep pots is invaluable and underrated

Hand postflop seems fine. Ott i would just flat. You’re getting almost 4 to 1, and there are some implied odds

AP call

I call pre as well, but I’m not checking flop.

The people saying, "you have 5 high, fold pre." have obviously done no studying of how it performs vs typical utg opening ranges. 54s performs quite well in these spots.

Now if you are going to stack off 200 bb on a 5 2 2 flop
or bluff off your stack on AKQ. Then obv fold pre.

How well does it perform out of position? How well does it perform if someone behind us 3bets?

You think you’re going to profit over 7.5BBs postflop with 54? Not a chance in hell

Calling from CO vs UTG open is not calling OOP so I fail to see your point. If button 3 bets then just fold.

If you are in position and get 3 bet and the sizing is small enough call. Pretty simple.

You seem to think I'm advocating playing 54s from all positions 100% of the time. I'm not.

You may not be wrong this time, but this is just too rigid of an answer.

At some point implieds become as or more important than direct odds and preflop adjustments are made to satisfy the greater need to make money post the deeper the stacks. Perhaps the conditions are right to begin to call this kind of equity. At the very least the needle starts to move, and you can start to consider if a call can outperform other options.

BTN called behind us, completely destroying our position.

Yes if BTN 3bets we just fold, and punt away 7.5 BB.

The raise is huge and 54s does not have as good implied odds as you guys seem to think. When stacks are huge, you want to make the nuts - not a 5 high flush or bottom two.

You're just cherry picking examples to support your arbitrary rules.

Anyways I'm done. I've done the homework and have applied it in practice so I'm comfortable with my position.

The BTN and blinds still acting behind us is cherry picking? 7.5BB raise size is cherry picking?

Are you going to share this analysis you’ve supposedly done to show this play is +EV, or just tautologically assert it?

Villain opened UTG []

So if btn/sb/bb 3-bets “then just fold” 7.5bb like that’s nothing. LOL. Cuz losing 7.5bb 10-20% of the time without seeing a flop is no big deal

This spot happening 10-20% of the time. Ok

Me too

He is saying that 10-20% of the time that you are in a spot like this, you will get squeezed and have to fold. You have to factor that into your EV calculations.

While this is true, you are forgetting (or at least undervaluing) our ability to steal on a ton of boards where we have a perceived range advantage. So we are not calling simply to make the best hand. Yes it sucks that the button called, but that still does not prevent us from stealing from the PFR as when we raise certain boards, the BTN will most likely have to fold all but the top of his range as it will look super strong to him too.

Position on a PFR can be a massive weapon in NL if stacks are even semi deep. Learn how to use it wisely and you can really increase your win rate.

Even this is not really true. How often do you see a 3 bet vs an UTG open at 1/2? How often do you see a 3 bet period? Really 20% of the time? Suure. Keep making up whatever stats to try to prove your point.

Agreed. I saw a 3! pre twice in my game in 4 hours yesterday and it was me both times.

So your plan is what? Flop a draw and blast all the money in hoping we get a fold?