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Old 07-12-2018, 12:24 AM   #1
sirpupnyc
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1/2, Flopped top two, multi-way, big stack

Late Saturday night at Borgata.

Limped eight ways preflop. Hero ($800, covers table) is MPish with QT. (Yeah, yeah...taking a cheap flop when I can get it.)

Flop ($16): QTX
(X is a non-straight card.)

V1 (~$300), first to act, bets $12. I don't think I've seen anything too odd or out of line from him.

V2 (~$700) on my right calls. I've seen a fair amount of aggression from her, and she has good sense. I've played with her before, and my general inclination would be to try to stay out of her way. (Though we've already tangled a few times this night.) A bit of FPS, though, and doesn't get it when it doesn't work out in her favor.

With two interested already and half the table still behind me, I raise to $52.

V3 ($257) in LP cold-calls, everyone else folds. V1 calls, V2 calls. V3 has also seemed reasonably solid and quick to press his advantage.

Not exactly proceeding according to plan...four to the turn wasn't what I had in mind.


Turn ($220): 6

V1 bets $55.
V2 calls.
Spoiler:


My questions:
Spoiler:


Results:
Spoiler:
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:52 AM   #2
Phil Me Up
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Re: 1/2, Flopped top two, multi-way, big stack

Call & hope river bricks, or prepare to raise/fold to about $200 (committing yourself vs V1 but not V2 if they 3b shove). Not 100% sure what's best here.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:52 AM   #3
monikrazy
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Re: 1/2, Flopped top two, multi-way, big stack

Turn is a clear raise and river is a good spot to go for value, not to induce

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Old 07-12-2018, 06:51 AM   #4
AllTheCheese
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Re: 1/2, Flopped top two, multi-way, big stack

Didn't look at spoilers yet. AP, very easy jam on the turn. Against the medium stacks, you're obviously happy to get it in with top two, and the big stack ~never has you beat when she takes this line.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:05 AM   #5
vanvliet
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Re: 1/2, Flopped top two, multi-way, big stack

I like a jam on the turn

AP I like your river thinking
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:27 AM   #6
vanvliet
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Re: 1/2, Flopped top two, multi-way, big stack

I guess your reason for just flatting turn was a fear that one of the Villains has a set.

However this seems unlikely for V1 (such a small bet size on turn on super-drawy board into 3 likely drawing hands) and for V2 (similar) and for V3 (surely he’d raise flop)

With such a lot of draws out there, and it being so likely you are ahead right now, I think you have to raise big on turn.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:51 AM   #7
fishsoup
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Re: 1/2, Flopped top two, multi-way, big stack

The small bet OTT is almost always a guy trying to get a cheap price with a flush/straight draw on this kind of board. Jam over it to deny their equity, even if it means eexposingthe strength of our hand - by calling you're giving V1 & V2 a massively +EV bet

AP OTR jam. It's 4 handed, yes draws bricked but it's likely someone has a hand that can call. If we are first to act I like a check much more. With only one person left (unless he's very aggro) it's really hopeful that he bets.
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:12 PM   #8
whatnow88
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Re: 1/2, Flopped top two, multi-way, big stack

nice raise on the flop. I would have not made it that big but will going forward.

OTT the small donk is probably a draw and trying to set price
the pot is huge OTT I would raise it $255

If it bricks I'm betting small %30 ish




Why Jam instead of raise to around $250?
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:10 PM   #9
shorn7
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Re: 1/2, Flopped top two, multi-way, big stack

Hmmm. Turn sizing from and call from V2 does not signal strength to me so I would have raised there. too many draws to just call and hope for a brick.

AP, river is definitely a bet for value. Not really even that thin as you would have heard from a set before now.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:35 PM   #10
JMX
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Re: 1/2, Flopped top two, multi-way, big stack

I love the raise on the flop.

I think you can rule out AK given the limped pot, and I think you would've heard from K9/89 or bottom set on the flop, although 1/2 players are generally bad at reading board texture so who knows.

Definitely raising the turn, the question is how much. I think anywhere from the neighborhood of 250-shove is reasonable. I have a feeling these guys are tagging along with hearts, KJ, J9, and possibly even Qx.
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:06 PM   #11
bigdaddycope
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Re: 1/2, Flopped top two, multi-way, big stack

All in


Agree that we are basically never losing to V2 and the other two stacks are ~ 1SPR


Ridiculous amount of draws we can get called by and even get called by worse value.
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:33 PM   #12
sirpupnyc
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Re: 1/2, Flopped top two, multi-way, big stack

Thanks, all.

With the turn and river bricks, I wasn't concerned at any point about whether I had the best hand.

On the turn, a sensible raise would have put V3 AI, probably also V2. If either of them call, V2 might like her odds and also call. So shove > raise. And if I raise and get called on the turn, the pot's so big that I'm committed to a river call of pretty much anything except maybe a V2 shove no matter what the card. So again shove > raise. And given the flop action (three calls of my big raise), I'm sure I need to dodge the straight/flush half of the deck and I'm probably not getting anybody to fold (except, with a shove, V2), so raising won't change that. Yes, calling ignores the fact that people are eager to put money into the pot and I want them to do that, but it also potentially saves me money on the river if I have to make a crying call. (Which I guess is shove > everything again.)

I'm not concerned about tipping the strength of my hand on the turn; the flop raise took care of that already. If anything, just calling might have disguised it a bit.

On the river, I'm certain I'm good and that no one's calling if I bet. It turned out that my check did induce a bet (and a call!), but that wasn't what I was going for.
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:08 PM   #13
bigdaddycope
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Re: 1/2, Flopped top two, multi-way, big stack

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirpupnyc View Post

On the river, I'm certain I'm good and that no one's calling if I bet. It turned out that my check did induce a bet (and a call!), but that wasn't what I was going for.
This literally doesn't make sense. Why did we check if we weren't trying to induce?

Were you just soft playing and expecting to check it down?
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Old 07-14-2018, 10:40 PM   #14
sirpupnyc
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Re: 1/2, Flopped top two, multi-way, big stack

Yes, I'm checking down, because I'm sure no one's calling. OK, they can't call if I don't give them the opportunity, but no one's going to call. (Although perhaps I gave V2 too much credit, if she called V3 because she thought I'd fold. So OK, I should have bet. She also still has a good-size stack and perhaps an inclination to shove if she thinks my bet looks weak. Which is an argument both ways.) And of course if I bet and everybody folds my cards remain a mystery.
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