Hero: Sitting on a stack of around $240, both villains cover. Probably have a tight image but both villains are fish on hot streaks so I doubt they are thinking players. However, Hero just got a bluff river bet called and I lost about $70 in that hand so they may consider that.

V1: Clueless fish, plays ATC. Limps if he's not strong enough to raise; very rarely folds pre. Called a $60 all in 3-bet preflop with KTo.

V2: Not as clueless as V1, but I've seen him overplay Top pair in a hand he played against me where I raised pre and he donked into me on a King high board with KJo. He has also shown down 82s for a flush. He also showed a 9 on 9x6x2h5h7x, where he check/called a raise on the flop, check called a 100 dollar bet on the turn, and donked all in on the river for 250 more and his opponent folded. I believe he turned his hand into a bluff here but maybe he called two streets overvaluing TP and got there on the river.

OTTH:
V1 limps from UTG and V2 limps from UTG+2
Hero opens TT to 13 from CO, folds to V1 who calls, V2 calls as well.

Flop($42):4h8h5d
Checks to Hero, who bets $20, V1 calls, V2 raises to 75, hero folds

Is this correct?
I'll have about 3/4 PSB on the turn and I can't imagine any turn where V2 doesn't put me all in. There also are barely any good turn cards. A heart is terrible, a A, K, Q, 6, or 7. Should I have called?

Since I'm a nit I feel compelled to point out that "opening" is raising with no limpers.

Bet more OTF, the board is wet and your hand is fragile.

Fold to the x/r is very clear. This is a spot where you don't even have to answer the more difficult question of whether you should continue with some overpairs. Since it seems close, you probably don't want to be continuing with every overpair in your range. And most of the overpairs in your range are better than TT. Therefore, fold all your TTs.

If you had AA, especially AA with no heart, this would be a tougher question, but I think I'm folding still. I don't think he does this with stuff like 87 because I think he leads.

If we’re going to b/f, why bet bigger OTF? I never understand this logic. Yeah, we want to charge him for draws, but he very well might raise his draws like JThh to which we’re folding anyway, so why bet bigger?

If you're against mostly aggressive players who x/r a lot, then yeah you want to stick to smaller sizing. I'm operating under the assumption that these guys are generally passive and will x/c more often than x/r. I want to charge a reasonable amount to see a turn because there are almost no turn cards which aren't problematic in some way.

Matt,

I’d bet more on the flop. As played, though, I’d jack it all in on the flop.

So if you’re sure about problematic cards falling on turn, don’t you want to keep the pot smaller? What if turn went x/x and V bet river? Same dilemma.

Momo,


That’s a reasonable approach, but when we’re in that situation and not very deep I take the opposite approach and just pile the money in early.

how is this a dry flop?

I feel like a book could be written on this, but briefly, most factors here don't argue for keeping the pot small. We have position and a strong hand.

"Keeping the pot small" or "pot control" is one of those old-school poker ideas which is the right idea for the wrong reasons. It's true to some extent that OOP you want to keep pot size down because the automatic positional advantage your opponent has is worth more in real money terms the bigger the pot gets. In position though, there is no inherent advantage to a smaller pot. Often we don't value bet what is probably the best hand, but that's because our opponent can't call enough worse hands to outweigh the better ones, or because we realize that if we bet this street, value betting the next street as well won't be possible. When people check in those spots they'll often say "I wanted to keep the pot small" but it's an inaccurate way of thinking about it. It's really consideration of how much value can be obtained and when the best time is to go for it.

The problem with wet boards is not really that you might get drawn out on, it's that so many cards are action killing (and I realize I put "your hand is fragile" in my first reply, which is also inaccurate. I more accurately mean "there are a lot of turns where you can't value bet"). Turns like 7, or A, or a heart, all make it really hard for me to get any more money out of the opponent, even though I'm likely still good most of the time. On a drier board I can take things slower and get the value over multiple streets. So I guess a one-sentence answer to why I want to bet larger here is that I think it's generally going to be easier to get value here than it is on later streets.

This is what I was thinking.

I would also size higher on the flop...$20 looks very weak to me and a semi-tricky V (like V2) might see that as just an open opportunity to raise you with any 2 here. Sure, he could have a set or 76, but he has a ton more hands in his range that you are ahead of. Given what you have seen from this guy, he could easily do this with A8, 86/87/56 etc.

You have $203 left when he raises and the pot is $137 for you to call $55. I might actually just GII here given stack sizes vs this player. But it is shove or fold...calling is out of the question.