1/2 flopped a boat facing a raise
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 195
Hi, I'm relative new to the forums and would like to get some thoughts on this hand I played.
Hero: Young, 22 year old. Doubled his stack with KK all in on a dry board versus a manic, then doubled again when another manic raised him on an all club flop when hero had the nut flush.
V1: Older lady who really only bet when she had a very good hand. Very Nit.
V2: Just sat down.
Hero has 7,7 in the cutoff raised to $12
V2: on the button calls
V1: calls from the BB
Pot: $37
Flop: A, A, 7
V1 checks, hero bets $25, V2 calls, V1 raises to $75
Should I shove or just call? Thanks for any help I can get it or any extra information needed. This hand turns out pretty wicked will reveal more after a few posts.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 26,519
Welcome to the forum!
How much money do the V's have in front of them? I assume after all your double ups, you have them both covered.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,495
Don't post results. You probably will anyway, but try to think of ignoring results as focusing on your opponents as having a range of possible hands rather than the one specific hand they happened to have this time.
Post effective stacks, as this is one of the fundamentals you should always be thinking about in NL games. Your question of shove vs call on the flop is meaningless w/o posting stack sizes.
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 195
My fault. V1 had 110 B. Hero had 225 BB. V2 had 100 BB. I assumed V1 had am Ace and had three of a kind. The button could of had a pocket pair or any broadway draws.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 26,519
With 100BBs effective, I just flat here. V2 might come along, and V1 will likely commit OTT.
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,726
Flat, easy enough to stack an ace
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 920
Was it a rainbow flop?
With these Vs and these stack sizes, I get it in now if it's a rainbow flop.
V1 isn't bluffing, and doesn't have a weak ace. If she has A7, that's poker.
V2 either has the case ace or is done with the hand. There's no other draw out there. If V2 has the case ace, there's a solid chance he decides you're spazzing with a bluff hand here. He's going to put V1 on the other ace, and you're some punk kid. It'll seem more likely that you're getting out of line than that you're playing pocket 7s this fast.
If there's a two-flush on the board, then I'd just call the $75. That creates a draw that V2 could be drawing to. Better to give him ~5-to-1 on his dead flush draw.
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 195
General advice is to call, which is what I did and then V2 called as well
The turn brings a queen.
Pot: 261
V1 checks.
So I bring out a 100 figuring Id try to get a shove from one of the other two players. V2 shoves and V1 shoves as well. Which I call. Do you think this was the correct sizing on the bet or should I've checked it? Thanks for the advice will post the results after a few replies if you guys want to know what happened.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 920
Well, you got the result you wanted, and your thinking was correct. $100 is a bit of an underbet, but it sounds like V1 and V2 each have between $125 and $150 left in their stacks. So this bet size seems good -- it at least lets them feel like they're raising by moving all-in on the turn.
Checking seems insane to me. Checking signals that you have a terrible hand or a monster. But even if they both decide you have a terrible hand, they still have to size each other up. If V2 has a medium ace, he checks back here. Then you're stuck jamming most rivers and having them ponder whether you really have AQ or not.
Both Vs have defined their hands as being strong. No need to make them do the betting for you.
I imagine this is going to turn out to be a cooler hand, against AQ, A7, QQ, or A-whatevercomesontheriver. But at 1/2, against standard Vs, I think this is a profitable line (and I also think reraising on the flop would be a profitable line).
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 26,519
I would have gone a bit less than 100. Since you are worried about no draws you can easily get it in over two streets, and V1 might fold to $100 cause she's a nit and it's a big scary round number.
If she has AA or A7, oh well. (Yes, AA is in a nit's range to flat pre OOP). AK is much more likely and she's going to be afraid of AA/A7/77, but not enough to fold for 1/4 pot (each time). As for the other guy, his range prob includes any ace, and maybe pairs between 88-KK. He's obv never folding an ace, but milking another call out of (for example) JJ, might be easier for $75 than for 100.
Still, it worked. Hope you didn't get coolered.
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 195
Yeah, looking back maybe I could of made my $100 bet smaller. But, when both villains shoved they did it so confidently I started to feel really uneasy that I just got played. Tanked for a bit and then called. I just wanted people to look at my reasoning and if they would of ever folded that hand. I don't think I could ever fold it.
Conclusion:
V2 showed A Q for a boat. V1 showed A K. The turn is the K. So actually it wasn't that bad since we hit the bad beat jackpot and I won 600 bucks so there was a happy ending.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,552
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 109
Don't slow play bottom boat when there are multi players. U r feeling fine bcuz both of them hit the boat at the end. If only one of them had hit the boat, u will be kicking ur self.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,215
Grunch* Smooth calling seems fine. You would like to get both of them to come along. Nit lady has an ace 100% of the time. No real scare cards can come, you just need to hope they don't hit their kicker. If you call try to get all the money in on the turn.