1/2

MP- Hero has about 450 to start the hand. I'll been playing nothing in particularly interesting, I don't think I was playing too tight or too loose.

V1 CO. He is and extreme LAG. He's been 3-betting a lot left and right without premium hands. He's for sure capable of making some light 3-bets here. One previous hand, in a limped pot, he squeezed from the BB with pocket sixes and then called a limp-jam from a short stack who had pocket fives.~450

V2: SB, Not too much information about him. He's relatively new to the table. ~300 start with

Hero opens to 10 with A T from MP
folded to V1
V1 3-bets to 30 from the CO
V2 "calls" my Ten, and doesn't realize that V1 3-betted from the CO, and then wanted to take his chips back and fold. But the dealer told him that he can still fold but still have to put his ten chips in, so he ended up calling. I don't think he's doing some sort of angle here, I sincerely think that's he has a bit of wide range here.

Usually, I don't love defending ATs against a 3-bet here, but against a villain who super loose, it's way too much and far too exploitable if I fold ATs here. But would it be better to 4-bet here, or should I call and try to float on some flops, with bdfd's. What should be the plan here? Because If I call here, we have a SPR of 3~ going to the flop.

Definitely an interesting dynamic.

The situation makes me want to just 3-bet to $130 and never fold. Sucks when the LAG happens to have a hand he wants to go with, but their ranges are sufficiently wide for it to work I think.

Does the hand being suited matter here in this case?

Like do we have more playability postflop here or?

EDIT: Realized I messed up stack sizes in the OP. Sorry! 450 deep not 350.

4! to $120.

Against described villain I agree, I would 4 bet and expect 2 folds.

The interesting thought is what to do if v1 5 bets? It'd be a tough spot, but I hate calling and folding to his 3 bet, so I'd still 4 bet here.

I don't disagree that it's probably right 4-bet here. I just idk, figured that I might have enough play ability with a suited hand here to go to the flop with. I think 4-betting is probably correct here

But as the title of thread implies, I called and ending up going to flop.

92 Flop comes K Q 4


Nothing particular for us. We have a gutshot straight draw with a BDFD here.

V1 c-bets 45, V2 calls. Hero? My read as with preflop is that V2 is not that strong here. V1 is going to be c-betting here very frequently without made hands. AKA, I'm not giving V1 or V2 too much respect here.

Can we float here? Like should call here, and then we can donk lead any spade turn? Check- raise here, and then Jam a spade turn? Or should we just let this one go.

I think I like a call pre-flop. Probably too much value to fold, this is just not a good enough hand to take a stand with here. There's not a ton of flush value OOP and with these stack sizes. 4! just feels like spewing here IMO.

And I dunno, I'm not sure folding is bad here. This really gets down to exactly how loose he is and I can't really tell from your description. Squeezing from the BB with 66 is not really that crazy.

Snap fold on flop. You whiffed the flop, this is multi-way, and there is not enough behind to scare V2.

I mean, if you're HU against V1, maybe that's a good spot to x/r. But V2 can easily have a K or Q and he could be pretty sticky if he know's V2 is laggy. There's ~240 in the pot and V2 has about 225 behind. He might not be committed, but he might. And sometimes V1 does have a hand.

It was a bad flop for you. Let this one go.

No, don't you worry about his FoS 3! of $30 with $300-$450 effective in two places

Just consider that you got to the flop in a normal way with a AXs for 6% of effective stacks. Like any other bet with shorter stacks but still around 6% of eff. From this point on it doesn't matter. You got two villains with you for 6% of eff. The flop will be exactly the same no matter what. When you call 6% eff you know you are trying to speculate. Even if he's got AA/KK/QQ or AK it means nothing to you because you got to flop for 6.5%. I will do the same thing with 22+, suited Broadways, A2s+ and even T9s, 98s too. Yes, true this is a raised pot at the surface but it can be considered "let's see the flop for 6% and break you!". Would you play AT with $150 eff for a bet of $10? - Or, how would you play AT with $70-$80 effective? - would you have folded for $5? ... wtf? man .., can you see what's so clear to see?

That's the same thing ..., man .., Don't you worry about the cowboy's 3! because you know you go for the kill if you got what you're looking for only 6% of eff. Let him bet whatever he wants. You play him separate per each street: flop, turn and river or else you bail out if you cannot find cracks into his play where he can break.

That's the skill and the way you got to look and understand the depth of the game in order to find where the money are hidden

For what's it worth, I would say his 3-betting range is probably let's say for the sake of argument roughly, using some equliab. His range is any 22+, J9s+,JTo, QJs+, QJo+, KJo+, KTs+ ATo+,Axs, , 98s, 87s,76s,65s, etc.
I agree that squeezing pocket sixes is not terribly crazy.

V2 is sticky against V1, but's V2 is not going be nearly as sticky if he gets overcalled by me here. While I don't have much history against V2,I agree that V2 probably has a Queen or a King that's he's never going to fold against V1, but it's very different if he gets over called.

^I'm not disagreeing that a fold here is standard, but I just want to explore the possibility of potentially floating here.

You got this if you think floating:

4 outs Jacks for nut Str8
1 out for BDFD
1 out for runner-runner Aces or runner-runner Tens or runner-runner A+T for trips or two-pair
3 outs of Queens to pair the middle card from the flop (balls-bluffing)
1 out for runner-runner
1 out for runner-runner

Total only 11 outs with lots of indulgence (LOL)

Not enough to work in this situation. The "balls-bluffing" I would say is weak and the rest of legitimate outs are not enough. So, a fold is in order. We need a different flop and turn architecture.

I like the analysis outdonked. But just for a thought experiment, hypothetically I overcall, it looks like we have a king right? So do we perse necessarily need outs?

As played

Thanks for the clarification. So basically is he is being over-aggressive with playable hands but not marginal/trash hands. FWIW, I would call that LAG but not extreme LAG. So ATs is not bad there, but it's still kinda marginal. In this situation, AJs feels a lot better.

It sounds like you were thinking about this correctly. The only other thing I would add is that with the limited stack of V2 and likelihood of him having a K or Q, I'd just x/r on flop rather than donking turn, if you're putting a move on here, which you probably shouldn't. ;-)

If you do call, planning to donk, then unless the turn is an A or J, it's likely to look pretty safe to V2 so I'm not sure how likely he is to fold at that point. Now you might get a good turn card, but I just don't see how it's worth calling the flop.

But overall I just can't get past a bluff against 2 people where one of them probably has a hand and the other often doesn't but very well could (and has the bigger stack and position). I would save this move for when you are HU against the LAG.

this.

30 is not a big 3! for a LAG. He most likely does not have a premium hand here. Just shove over the top and take down the free moneyl

4 bet with A10 is unthinkable to me but it appears the game has passed me by lol

FWIW I'm rethinking my advice now that he has $450 instead of $350. I think it's a call with that deep of a stack.