Limp: 22-66 AJo ATs KQo KJs-KTs QJ-98s QTs
Raise: 77+ AQ+ AJs KQs

What do you guys think? And also how would we proceed when a bunch of fish limp behind and a TAG iso raises in CO/BTN? Feel free to add your own.

I think you are probably playing too many hands OOP and are definitely limping way too many hands from EP. I don't really see much of a difference between 66, 77, and 88 from EP and don't understand why we play any of them differently.

It depends. Too much depends on the table conditions to be able to answer this reasonably. I'll almost never open-limp AT/AJ though. Table is generally good for raising those or mucking them, playing them OOP in a limped pot is the suck, and limp calling with them is worse.

The idea of limping the often dominated broadways like AJo/KQo is that if limped around it's very unlikely that someone has better. Then I can use my huge post-flop skill edge over live fish to crush (as well as card edge since they limp ace rag and junk like K5s). I feel like I'm way too big of a nit and don't get involved in pots with fish often enough. I see a lot of other "internet kids" frequently walk away with four digit stacks and in probably about a total of fifty sessions I've only had that honour once.

You shouldn't be limping a lot of hands if there's a TAG raising on the button. This is why good players open much wider in LP. They know there's a bunch of people limping with crap and there's free money sitting out there. Don't expect a TAG to pay you off if you limp/call 22 and hit your set. Your set-mining odds are probably not as good as you think they are.

I can't imagine too many situations where limping QT/KT-type hands is +EV.

You are overestimating how important post flop edge is and underestimating how important position is.

I doubt they are doing so by limping these hands from early position. If they are then internet play is a lot different than I remember it.

It depends on how the table plays. If CO/BTN/SB/BB includes 2-4 players who like to iso-raise (such as guys who can't stand limping in those spots with two broadway cards), I'm often limping with premium hands and sometimes making blocking raises with speculative hands where I am happy if more than half the table calls.

In the scenario described, I adjust my range based on the standard raise size of CO/BTN and how wide his iso-range is. It's okay to limp with the intention of folding to a raise if this TAG is the sort who is rather tight even in late position but usually comes in for a raise when he does play.

Way to vag to answer. In a vacuum I am opening your whole range in late position. Folding most of it in EP.

Position has more value, than your cards in most LLSNL games.

I would be raising every single one of those hands except 22-66 if effective stacks are under 50bb

They're mostly raising but do a fair amount of limping too. Seem to be generally a little looser than me.

Why though? Online I raise hands like JTs UTG to make my range less face up but I don't see why we need to live vs horrible villains.

I think you answered your own question there.

I would try not to open limp with any hand. This is certainly the case for the best players in 5/10+ for a variety of reasons, and I would be shocked if those same reasons didn't apply to all the stakes.

I'm sorry for the upset feeling you're going to have, but if you are asking about what your EP playing range should be, you don't have a post-flop skill edge. Given how wide you are proposing to play, I don't think you have a good understanding of position. Your strategy appears to be flop better than your opponents to win.

Just as a starting point, I'd play 4 times as many hands on the button than in the UTG. Go from there.

I agree. This question is very vaginal.

And I agree with most of what's been said - position is much more important in LLSNL than cards, as it is in any flop-based game. Moreover, you'll see more deep stacks live than online so the value of your cards goes down while at the same time the importance of position goes up exponentially. I'd wager my unborn first born those online crushers cashing out four racks are crushing LLSNL by pounding their opponents while in position more than OOP.

In a vacuum, ditch the weaker broadways and raise more things like AJ-AT. Limping/open-raising SPPs can go back and forth depending on the lineup.

For the most part, I'd take 22-66 and add it to the raising range and get rid of the limping range entirely. I don't voluntarily enter pots that I intend to play passively OOP. Under rare circumstances, I'll limp-reraise the big cards and TT+ in my EP raising range if there's a maniac straddle-raising a lot but that's about the only time I open limp. I would say I open-limp less than 5% of the hands I play from EP. On the rare occasion that I do limp, it's usually with the intention of reraising. If I'm playing from EP, I'm raising almost always.

Here's a good thread:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...image-1136787/

My personal opinion. I limp call with all pocket pairs except jj+ also is the LP raiser is doing it frequently enough limp 3bet with the top of your range.

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That's like...a 12% range? I don't really think that's wide at all. I could be a nit and just open an 8% range from EP and fold everything else. By this I mean 66+, AJs+, KJs+, JTs+, AQo+ but given the amount of over limping that's usually done behind would it not make sense to limp a few % of weaker hands? Sure sometimes we get iso raised and have to fold but other times we get to see a cheap flop. And we can just be smart and not over play our T9s on a T63r flop.

Of course. I used to open like 8% UTG and open/iso raise 45% on the BTN. I'm just trying to expand my EP range to include hands that are closer to break even instead of hands that are clearly +EV.

Can you explain more about raising AJ-AT from EP? Especially AJ-ATo. Obviously it's not that big of a deal if fish call you but if a reg calls you IP aren't you usually in trouble? Seems like these hands are easily dominated which is why I thought about limping them instead from EP since if no one raises I can be confident about not being dominated cause I don't expect people to be limping AQ+ or JJ+.

You're right, AJ & AT are trouble against better players but it doesn't mean that regs won't give you action with worse A's (suited A's come to mind). Unless the table is tough (in which case I'm transferring tables), I will b/f AJ & AT. I'll value own myself but so often we'll get action from worse aces that it's hard to not play them.

Unless you are playing at a super soft table, a strategy of hitting your hand to win is a losing strategy. If you can put together a strategy of winning with 66 in the UTG when you don't hit a set or better, then limping it makes sense.

Cbet a dry non-ace high flop into one or two opponents or any drop flop heads up, especially with a backdoor straight draw. I guess if it's a loose stationy table it's better to limp 66-88 though.

Wait a second...
In Fantasy scenario 1, they were giving you their entire stacks when you limped your weak range UTG and hit a big hand. Now in Fantasy scenario 2, you're still limping UTG but stealing the pot with a c-bet. How you gonna get paid in scenario 1 if scenario 2 is true?

No in fantasy scenario 2 I mean I'll cbet K73r with 66 after opening always three way or heads up. If I limp 66 I'm much less likely to bluff even three handed. In fantasy scenario 1 I'm stacking them if I flop a set or pick up a good nut draw and hit.

At 2-5 and below there are too many passive limpfest games to pass up limping a wide variety of hands if you play well postflop. So I think there can be a case for limping. 5-10+ i dont think so.

Note: I dont want to raise 22 utg, and I would like to play it with a table full of passives.

If there is an isolator in late position which could ruin it for the table (only one or two of them besides us) then usually you can train them not to mess with your limps if you limp/3 bet hands such as ATs A9s K9s AJ etc. Obviously we do this if the villain is aggro isolator but not skilled at adjusting (quite a few at 2-5 and below) so you have to peg your villains skill level before doing this.

And only do it enough to get the table to allow you to limp your 22 or whatever early.

This requires some experience so give it serious thought before you run on out and do it.