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Old 07-24-2017, 03:01 PM   #1
Ps21021
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1/2 Enough SDV to check back river?

1/2-

V1 BB: He is the definition of a LAG. If he had a poker commandant it would have said "Thou shalt defend thine big blind". He is without a doubt a very good player in this game. He is also pretty sticky postflop, and doesn't fold that often. However, that being said, he is starting to play less aggressively, and less sticky against "me" because he perceives me being too tight. 275 to start

H: I've been playing pretty snug this session, and haven't really gotten out of line. 225 to start

Hero opens T 9 in MP to 10

Villain defends BB

21 Flop is A Q T

Villain chks I c-bet 15. Villain calls. Can arguably check back, but against someone who is sticky, let's get some value here.

51 Turn is 9

Villain chks. I c-bet 35 Villain calls. Pretty favorable turn

121 River is the A

Villain chks. Bad Bad river, do we have enough showdown value to check it back here, or do we need to bluff here? Villain is sticky, but I think he's going to fold most of his Queens, get him of the chop if he has a T. Or can check back here and be good against K X or J X . But I think he's playing his draws more aggressively?
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Old 07-24-2017, 03:56 PM   #2
branch0095
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Re: 1/2 Enough SDV to check back river?

I'm probably just checking it back here. We beat busted flush draws, and some random K9/J9 straight draws that bricked out. Also, you'd be targeting a very narrow range of hands that have you beat, Qx hands, and K10 specifically. Obviously you're not folding out an A, and if this V is sticky you may even have trouble getting a Q to fold.
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Old 07-24-2017, 05:02 PM   #3
Ps21021
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Re: 1/2 Enough SDV to check back river?

I don't disagree, but I'll play devil's advocate.

Wouldn't it be more likely for villain to raise his combo draws (aka, the Kxhh or the Jxhh, and the K9/J9 straight draws on the flop or the turn, considering that he's a LAG, so the hands we beat, he's more likely to raise?
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Old 07-24-2017, 05:11 PM   #4
Jarretman
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Re: 1/2 Enough SDV to check back river?

Check back flop.

As played turn is good, maybe can size down a bit to not blow off his weak Ax and Qx.

As played check back river.
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Old 07-24-2017, 05:14 PM   #5
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Re: 1/2 Enough SDV to check back river?

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Originally Posted by Ps21021 View Post
I don't disagree, but I'll play devil's advocate.

Wouldn't it be more likely for villain to raise his combo draws (aka, the Kxhh or the Jxhh, and the K9/J9 straight draws on the flop or the turn, considering that he's a LAG, so the hands we beat, he's more likely to raise?
Totally V dependent, even within the LAG player pool. Also OP said that the LAG V had been playing a bit more snug and straight forward against him specifically due to how tight OP has been playing. I'm not saying your assessment is wrong, just that it's really hard to come to a conclusion either way without being at the table.
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Old 07-24-2017, 05:28 PM   #6
Ps21021
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Re: 1/2 Enough SDV to check back river?

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Originally Posted by branch0095 View Post
Totally V dependent, even within the LAG player pool. Also OP said that the LAG V had been playing a bit more snug and straight forward against him specifically due to how tight OP has been playing. I'm not saying your assessment is wrong, just that it's really hard to come to a conclusion either way without being at the table.
That's fair, from my experience playing against this villain, I felt that while it's not impossible we still win against Kx and Jx of hh, I felt like that he was more likely to raise these draws, than flat call esp OOP
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Old 07-24-2017, 06:55 PM   #7
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Re: 1/2 Enough SDV to check back river?

You are not getting value betting 3rd pair, check back flop, call any turn and evaluate river

Also flop sizing is way too big, $7-$10 would be fine
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Old 07-25-2017, 11:59 AM   #8
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Re: 1/2 Enough SDV to check back river?

Were you watching that ace come up on the River, or did your focus immediately go to your V when the dealer flipped it over?

Like you said: That was a bad river card for you & if you were focused on the card & your V was focused on you - well, see where I'm going with this?
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Old 07-25-2017, 12:17 PM   #9
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Re: 1/2 Enough SDV to check back river?

I can go either way. Would he just check/call an A on flop/turn? Most LAGs won't, even against tighter players. Seems he'd bet and/or raise a straight on turn.

I probably go ahead and bet. He has to be worried about an A vs. a tight pre-flop raiser, I doubt he has one, and I'd hate to lose to QX when he should fold those on river if he's "tightened up" against you.

Obviously, if there is any way he has an A, just check. He's never folding.

BTW, I'm betting that flop and I like your sizing.
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Old 07-25-2017, 03:15 PM   #10
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Re: 1/2 Enough SDV to check back river?

What on god's green earth is going on here with everyone saying to check back the flop? This is one of the easiest flop bets out there. We should be PSB this flop and this turn.

On river, your hand is counterfeited, you described V as sticky, and you're asking whether to try to bluff him. Does not compute.
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Old 07-25-2017, 03:17 PM   #11
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Re: 1/2 Enough SDV to check back river?

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Originally Posted by SwolyswoND View Post
On river, your hand is counterfeited, you described V as sticky, and you're asking whether to try to bluff him. Does not compute.
V has stopped playing as sticky vs. H, so it's a good bet.
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Old 07-25-2017, 05:15 PM   #12
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Re: 1/2 Enough SDV to check back river?

To bluff out what? Exactly KQ/QJ/Q9? Seems way too thin a range to target. Villain should never have KK/JJ here given preflop action, and he's not folding an Ace.
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Old 07-25-2017, 05:18 PM   #13
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Re: 1/2 Enough SDV to check back river?

It is so unlikely that he has an A. Very likely we do. He should be folding almost his entire range, including a queen. At the very best for him he has two pair, but I highly doubt it.
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Old 07-25-2017, 09:14 PM   #14
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Re: 1/2 Enough SDV to check back river?

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Originally Posted by SwolyswoND View Post
What on god's green earth is going on here with everyone saying to check back the flop? This is one of the easiest flop bets out there. We should be PSB this flop and this turn.

On river, your hand is counterfeited, you described V as sticky, and you're asking whether to try to bluff him. Does not compute.
Just because we have equity against his full range doesn't mean we should be potting flop in any case, it's bad for our hand and doesn't make a tonne of sense for our range
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Old 07-27-2017, 01:32 AM   #15
Ps21021
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Re: 1/2 Enough SDV to check back river?

For closure.

Spoiler:

Last edited by Ps21021; 07-27-2017 at 01:41 AM.
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