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Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

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Old 04-13-2014, 01:59 AM   #26
JMurder3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willyoman View Post
See what you're saying. Nice.

Also us having 5s actually blocks some possible flush draws from ranges, making them slightly less likely.

So lots of different dynamics.
Yeah, my 1st post was confusing because I just took your premise & was like well no, cuz the 5 of spades hitting isn't going to help them. My bad.
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Old 04-13-2014, 02:02 AM   #27
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Re: 1/2 do you ever fold bottom set on the flop?

Nah thanks for clarifying, I dig it.
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Old 04-13-2014, 07:34 AM   #28
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Re: 1/2 do you ever fold bottom set on the flop?

This is ****ing gross, Its hard to say readless.

QQ is seriously discounted and with the second nuts im probably getting it in after I swallow my own vomit and hoping he has Q9.
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Old 04-13-2014, 07:45 AM   #29
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GII, if you run into 1 of the 2 hands that have you crushed write it off as a cooler.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:29 AM   #30
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Re: 1/2 do you ever fold bottom set on the flop?

The thing that concerned me was that once V5 makes it 300 - and then V6 and V1 call... hero has NO fold equity.

it seemed obvious that V3 is coming along for the ride (short stack)
so we had at least 4 players that would probably not fold for 200+ more
felt like players were either on flush or str8 draw or had 2 pair or another set
seems like hero has A LOT of bullets to dodge
which is why I wondered if folding was a better line....

Based on pre-flop action, I was very sure that nobody had QQ.
In this game, chips were flying at every possible instance.
No player here would slow play QQ.

Hero did shove for 550+
V3 insta-called (as expected)
V4 tanked and folded
V5 tanked (that's when I knew he didn't have 99) and eventually called
V6 calls
V1 calls

Turn: Q
River: 7

Spoiler:

Last edited by HiroNakamara; 04-14-2014 at 03:52 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:35 AM   #31
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"Never folding" is closer to the truth and optimal play than any other play or sentiment.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:42 AM   #32
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Re: 1/2 do you ever fold bottom set on the flop?

People getting involved in this hand with straight draws without a fd, 2pair lol. That's why this is never a fold.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:44 AM   #33
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Re: 1/2 do you ever fold bottom set on the flop?

Bummer. But you got the money in good, nh.

Really interesting spot to play with in Stove.

KTss is obviously a monster here.

Q9dd gets a lot of value from the back door draw.

And we obviously lose a few points of equity because the case 5 is out.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:51 AM   #34
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Re: 1/2 do you ever fold bottom set on the flop?

Once the bet/raising train started rolling... it seemed like EVERYBODY on a draw now hand "proper odds" to call.
It was a super crazy and very unusual hand - with the case 5 out and case Q on the turn.
I didn't see how hero could fold... but once you can assume that you're going to the river with 5 other hands that have somehow hit this flop... it got me thinking.
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Old 04-14-2014, 05:42 AM   #35
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This is a really good spot for you to be in. I really doubt that you are behind on this flop. Set over set happens less than 98% of the time. The board is just wet enough to generate a lot of action for you. Two pair, flush draw, straight draw.

Get all of your money in. This isn't a situation where folding bottom set is +EV. This is probably the nut board for a bottom set situation. If the flop was all spades, or completed a straight then you could argue for folding bottom set here given the action.

Ship it.
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:09 AM   #36
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Re: 1/2 do you ever fold bottom set on the flop?

FWIW Since there was no one else on the flush draw, K10 of spades actually had the most equity on the flop.

I would still always GII here, most often will be vs two pair and flush-combo draw
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:30 AM   #37
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Just read the spoiler. Practically a dream flop for you. Turn sucks imo.
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:39 AM   #38
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I'm wondering what we would do in this spot if we had the KTss. How much would we fear AXss and be worried that we are drawing to 4 outs?
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:45 AM   #39
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Ran this hand in Poker Calculator and KTss does have the most equity on the flop. If you remove Q9 we're way ahead of KTss here. That's gross. I take back what I said about this being a dream flop.
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:48 AM   #40
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I think the cold callers are much more likely to have straighter flush draws, maybe Qx. But at this level I think someone with 99 is playing this flop fast. I would not fold 55.
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Old 04-14-2014, 01:56 PM   #41
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Re: 1/2 do you ever fold bottom set on the flop?

I think i fold more than most, but Im not folding here. 99 just wins thats all.

Limped pot and tons of combo draws and 2 pairs possible, we have to be clairvoyant to fold here.

Im hoping this had a good ending. Not enough people post hands like these when they win them.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:09 PM   #42
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Re: 1/2 do you ever fold bottom set on the flop?

That is difficult do not believe I am folding top set with it being draw heavy out there
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