There are two interesting whales in this hand, both sitting to my immediate right, with $400 and $1500 stacks respectively. Hero has $600.

V1 opens every hand to $10-15 because he’s bored to fold preflop and likes to take control by raising 100% (or say 90%) hands of hands dealt to him. Respects Hero’s game a lot though and comments “AA or KK?” everytime Hero raises preflop and bails out either pre or on flop. Which is why Hero likes to 3b him for value very wide pre.

V2 is slightly less worse, but is on a hot streak tonight so will play almost every hand dealt to him for $15-30 bucks, continue if he catches any piece on flop, will fish for bad draws but will bail out later in the hand if he can’t make two pair. Will seldom bet small with things like bottom pair to find out where he’s at, will blocker bet tiny into you to set his price, will bluff close to 0%.


A few limps, V1 raises to $15 in CO, V2 calls OTB, Hero raises to $75 in SB with KQdd, V1 ponders for a bit then says “doesn’t play enough hands” and folds, V2 says “I’m coming for the ride” and calls. (read ATC)

Flop (~$170): 8d 6s 3c
Hero checks, V2 bets $50 and starts dancing, Hero folds.

V shows 96hh and asks me “AK?”.

In a standard situation, I would just cbet here hoping for a fold and barrel favourable cards like any diamond or most face cards.

But against this villain who is so wide pre, I feel like a flop cbet would have no fold equity unless he had something like A2 or Q9 but if he had any pair or any straight draw, he’s calling one bet. Moreover, he would never bluff if I checked to him, so if he bet, I knew he caught a piece of it.

Is there any merit to cbetting flop vs such an opponent? Cbet small and then bomb a lot of turns?

If you’re confident with those specific reads, sounds like a fine c/f OTF to me.

Perosnally, I might wait for a little stronger hand pre - purely because we are OOP. If we were OTB, then I’m in favor of a 3! with KQdd.

I just hate playing OOP against super side ranges.

nh; wp.

nah barrel down with super nit image and diamond on flop. 3b then c/f is so weak.

Exactly my thoughts. Xf looks so weak here, which is why I created this thread.

What turns are you barreling besides diamonds and face cards?

So it looks weak. So what? We can't win every hand and we're playing against a whale.

If the pot was smaller I would go ahead and c-bet against a villain calling with nearly ATC but not floating with air. With a range that super wide they have to miss most flops no matter what the board is. Once it's a 3 bet it's too expensive and this is a good flop to just give up. You have no pair/no draw and the board allows for a lot of low draws that won't give up flop.

From your description villain can be barreled off single pairs but OOP I would want more equity before trying it OOP in a 3 bet pot.

This is as good a flop to cbet against this villain as any. You repped a big pair preflop, and you got an 8-high rainbow board heads up against a loose opponent. There's a good chance that you are actually ahead, and even when called, about half the deck will be an overcard to the board, further diminishing the value of the weak, one-pair hand that villain may have at best. Given the description of villain as someone who credits you as having the hand you are representing, I don't see any reason not to bet the flop and follow up with a second barrel on most turn cards.

You're going to see an A, K or Q by the river 40% of the time. You're going to turn a >20% of the time.

Mandatory c-bet especially with the speech otherwise don't 3bet this pre.

3b pre is completely fine, we are SB oop and these whales are playing almost ATC, its a 3b for value

Ap cbet flop, if he’s that wide he has to fold a lot of hands and we can continue on many turns

I dont think flop is close at all, esp cuz no FD

If you're going to 3! this pre then it's a mandatory c-bet to fold out Ace high hands and hands like 44-55 that will be queasy about calling down three streets. Add that we have a BDFD and BDSD and it's even more clear.

We really shouldn't have a c/f range in this spot, as we're completely polarized.

...who has a superwide range and will fold later when he can't make two pair...

Mandatory cbet imo.

Momo,

If you’re going to check and then fold to a $50 bet on that flop, then don’t 3-bet pre.

I like this. If you're going to 3-bet OOP, you pretty much need to cbet the flop. You did say villain often bails without 2-pair, so even though he might call a lot of flops, he sounds like a decent opponent to double or even triple barrel against. And you might hit a K or Q, which has a high chance of beating whatever random hand he has.

If you want to play to the fact that his bluff frequency is near 0, then keep the pot small from the start and don't 3-bet. Bet for big value after when you've made a decent hand.

Yes you can try and it's awful strategy not cbetting 863 rainbow from the sb 3 betting as a public nit.

How much do you guys like to bet on the flop?

Hard to say without knowing villain. Can bet 125 on flop and shove turn for 400 vs some. Others bet small flop and small turn and shove river like 60/120/345.

If he’s never folding a pair on flop, betting $125 seems kinda large. $60 let’s us get away cheaper if he raises. If he just calls, we can bet/fold $125 OTT and also make him fold his 1 pair hands that way, no?