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Old 12-06-2017, 09:59 AM   #1
Nippleman
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Club 1/2 Deep Stacked Weird Spot

I know, two threads from me in one week is pretty intense. I work as school teacher so finding time to play can be tough. I usually end up doing chunks at a time, and playing a bunch. This happened a couple rotations after my last thread:

Hero (effective 350) MAWG: Seen as LAG, slightly bluffy player, but thinking and position aware.

V1 OMC (covers): Bit looser than you would expect from an OMC, but playing pretty ABC from what I can tell. Not getting out of line, thinking before his plays. Seems like a disciplined player

V2 YAG (180) One of the longest sitting players at the table apart from me. Likes to play draws a lot, but other than that has been pretty in line. Capable of 3 barreling with bluffs, monsters, and anything in between. Super LAG.

otth

Straddle is on (5$, only UTG can do) V2 in MP limps, Hero in CU looks down at Q10c and makes it 20 to play. V1 thinks for a couple seconds and calls on the button. Folds to V2 who cold calls. Thanks Straddle!

Flop (60) (it's 61, but the second 3 more dollars enters, last dollar out for rake)

Ac10d9h

V2 checks, Hero???

Last edited by Nippleman; 12-06-2017 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 12-06-2017, 10:25 AM   #2
bhtong
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Re: 1/2 Deep Stacked Weird Spot

This is a clear C-bet if you are in position? Not sure if one of the callers is on the button. If one of the villains is on the button you may want to check/ call or fold here, but I think a 35-50% pot c-bet is a reasonable play. You have middle pair and although it isn't the best hand you are the preflop aggressor and can rep an ace.
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Old 12-06-2017, 10:29 AM   #3
Nippleman
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Re: 1/2 Deep Stacked Weird Spot

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Originally Posted by bhtong View Post
This is a clear C-bet if you are in position? Not sure if one of the callers is on the button. If one of the villains is on the button you may want to check/ call or fold here, but I think a 35-50% pot c-bet is a reasonable play. You have middle pair and although it isn't the best hand you are the preflop aggressor and can rep an ace.
I updated op. I put V1's spot, but V2 is on the button. Thanks for the heads up.
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Old 12-06-2017, 11:50 AM   #4
jtm1208
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Re: 1/2 Deep Stacked Weird Spot

There are merits to both betting and checking, and honestly neither is a totally bad option in this spot. C-Betting about $25-$30 is okay and hopefully you take it down.

I think with action behind you, I'd lean towards a check though. You're not getting an Ace to fold and betting here bloats the pot and could out you into much tougher spots later in the hand.

Last edited by jtm1208; 12-06-2017 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:03 PM   #5
donbarzini
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Re: 1/2 Deep Stacked Weird Spot

This is a check. Only the K or J are scary turn cards if you are ahead.

Out of position, a bet is even worse. If you bet and button calls, you kind of have to check the turn...and now button can bet you off your hand with whatever he floated with.

Keep the pot small, and hopefully you can value bet later and get paid by JT or 98.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:56 PM   #6
shorn7
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Re: 1/2 Deep Stacked Weird Spot

I would bet here, somewhere between $30-$40. You can credibly rep an Ace and with OMC on the button, you may fold out some hands that you don't want to give a free card to. V2 looks uninterested, so I think trying to get the hand HU (or maybe win it) makes sense. Also, you may be able to check the turn unimproved and get to the river for one bet as OMC may not bet the turn with an Ace.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:08 PM   #7
Nippleman
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Re: 1/2 Deep Stacked Weird Spot

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Originally Posted by donbarzini View Post
This is a check. Only the K or J are scary turn cards if you are ahead.

Out of position, a bet is even worse. If you bet and button calls, you kind of have to check the turn...and now button can bet you off your hand with whatever he floated with.

Keep the pot small, and hopefully you can value bet later and get paid by JT or 98.
That's a very specific situation though. What would happen if I bet here, and button folds? If a player has a strong Ace here, I am going to give it to V2 who I have position on. OCMs can fold weaker aces (although I understand not wanting to bloat pot with marginal holdings).

I end up checking, V1 looks hesitant, but bets for 30. V2 tanks for a bit, and then calls. I thought about folding for a bit, but end up calling.

I would have found a call much easier if V2 folded. That said, I am calling 30 to win 120, so it felt like I could take a chance, and see if I can improve, or get the **** out if nothing changes.

Turn (150)
Jc

V2 donks out for 80 (with about 50 behind) which is weird, but basically is a value shove imo. With V1 to act behind, Hero????
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:21 PM   #8
caddymatty
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Re: 1/2 Deep Stacked Weird Spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nippleman View Post
That's a very specific situation though. What would happen if I bet here, and button folds? If a player has a strong Ace here, I am going to give it to V2 who I have position on. OCMs can fold weaker aces (although I understand not wanting to bloat pot with marginal holdings).

I end up checking, V1 looks hesitant, but bets for 30. V2 tanks for a bit, and then calls. I thought about folding for a bit, but end up calling.

I would have found a call much easier if V2 folded. That said, I am calling 30 to win 120, so it felt like I could take a chance, and see if I can improve, or get the **** out if nothing changes.

Turn (150)
Jc



V2 donks out for 80 (with about 50 behind) which is weird, but basically is a value shove imo. With V1 to act behind, Hero????
Why would you give a strong ace to V2 here? You said hes a lag and he just limp called from middle position Id weigh him more towards connected cards rather than a strong hand. Then he just check calls the button bet as well.

I tend to mix up my play in this spot but I like to c-bet the flop about half pot here. Ac on the flop so we can pick up flush or straight draws on the turn to improve equity if we happen to be called. By betting the flop we also allow ourselves to represent a bigger hand than we have. Wont get an ace to fold for one bet(only put button as possibly having) but a double barrel on a favorable turn might do the trick.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:26 PM   #9
caddymatty
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Re: 1/2 Deep Stacked Weird Spot

When the Jc comes on the turn I feel like villain probably has a hand like J 10 or J 9 here. Any straights that get there are just gutshots except for 87(87 suited a realistic possibility as well). If the button seemed reluctant to bet the flop I feel it’s unlikely he is particularly strong on the turn. I think I would call the turn here and invite the button to put some more money in the pot. I feel it’s very hard for him to put in a raise in this position
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:59 PM   #10
donbarzini
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Re: 1/2 Deep Stacked Weird Spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nippleman View Post
That's a very specific situation though. What would happen if I bet here, and button folds? If a player has a strong Ace here, I am going to give it to V2 who I have position on. OCMs can fold weaker aces (although I understand not wanting to bloat pot with marginal holdings).

I end up checking, V1 looks hesitant, but bets for 30. V2 tanks for a bit, and then calls. I thought about folding for a bit, but end up calling.
I don't think many people are calling preflop with Ax, and then folding this flop to 1 bet. You'll need to double barrel at least...and there are easier ways to beat 1/2 than trying to blast people off top pair.

Again, there are very few scary cards on the turn for you. Maybe it would be different if you had 97 and the flop was A95. Even a J isn't that bad since it goes you an open ender.

Anyway, I think this is a pretty easy fold on the flop. Once V2 calls, it is over.
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:49 PM   #11
DormantShark
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Re: 1/2 Deep Stacked Weird Spot

I think this is a pretty clear-cut c/f OTF. You're in the middle of two players who've shown interested in the pot, you have a marginal hand that's not likely to improve, and there's an ace out on the board. Your bet PF was to try to iso or take it down, and when that didn't happen, I think it's perfectly fine to give up. You're not going to barrel people off top pair and I highly doubt you're ahead of both V's.

As an aside, I've been trying to work on my loose calls lately and the whole

Quote:
I am calling 30 to win 120, so it felt like I could take a chance, and see if I can improve, or get the **** out if nothing changes.
is a huge leak IMO. What cards are good for you besides a Q or T? The Q completes a gutter and the T gives you a good but vulnerable hand. C/c is a weak line without a plan better than "let's see if I get lucky". I'd honestly prefer a c/r (which looks hella strong and then you could barrel Q,J,T, and 8, as well as other cards if you have a read that the opponents are weak), but I still think c/c is easily the best play on this board in this position.
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:42 PM   #12
Nippleman
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Re: 1/2 Deep Stacked Weird Spot

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Originally Posted by DormantShark View Post


is a huge leak IMO. What cards are good for you besides a Q or T? The Q completes a gutter and the T gives you a good but vulnerable hand. C/c is a weak line without a plan better than "let's see if I get lucky". I'd honestly prefer a c/r (which looks hella strong and then you could barrel Q,J,T, and 8, as well as other cards if you have a read that the opponents are weak), but I still think c/c is easily the best play on this board in this position.
Not even a Q, just a float call into an increasingly large pot, with a few back door draws. Even a K or a J would give me the redraw to a straight, any club gives me a flush draw. Even ignoring how good the turn was for me, it isn't much money. There are a lot of cards that can show up that make other people unhappy. AK is not going to want to see another card to a straight come up. The board is pretty wet, and I was sensing a bit of weakness from V1. I might not think the call was the best call, but I don't think it's as big of a leap as you might think.
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Old 12-07-2017, 03:58 AM   #13
ES2
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Re: 1/2 Deep Stacked Weird Spot

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Originally Posted by Nippleman View Post
Not even a Q, just a float call into an increasingly large pot, with a few back door draws. Even a K or a J would give me the redraw to a straight, any club gives me a flush draw. Even ignoring how good the turn was for me, it isn't much money. There are a lot of cards that can show up that make other people unhappy. AK is not going to want to see another card to a straight come up. The board is pretty wet, and I was sensing a bit of weakness from V1. I might not think the call was the best call, but I don't think it's as big of a leap as you might think.
No. He is right. Getting top pair to fold after check calling here is a bad plan. Especially when this plan includes getting ak to fold.

Also it's 3 way. When those semi scary turn cards hit they will sometimes hit your other opponent. Occasionally he will also be slow playing a monster.

Flop is check fold. If you do bet I'd bet small. The better hands you fold out are few and far between so I don't see the point of betting half pot or more. Your bet is only for protection and to maybe get some weird hero or curiosity call from worse. Also we do have some equity is called and are now naming our price. So if you must bet do like 20. If someone bluff raises I'll buy you a coke.

Turn is an easy call. We are drawing sow we want more money in the pot.
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