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1/2 deep river decision vs nit 1/2 deep river decision vs nit

06-20-2013 , 11:10 PM
Ok 1/2 nl i got about 370, utg+1 has 150, V has us covered (about 550).

History:
Havent played much w V, hes been sitting for like an hour, bought in for 100 and has been running pretty hot stacking others w nuts, seconds nuts etc. Quite Taggy. I have tight solid image vs him so far.

Preflop:
On sb there I i didnt wanna 3b as i am being crushed by his value 4betting range and would make my life difficult if an inconvenient flop comes after i 3b. Also i wanted to control the pot as we are fairly deep and disguise my rang when i hit also be ahead of like Ax Kx on A high K high flops and extract max thin value etc.

Flop and turn no real reason to raise, stacks are awkward, ott not see much of a reason to jam as we fold out bluffs and freeroll vs AK. Only vs semibluffs we should cjam there and i think that semibluffs dont rep the vast majority of his range.

River:
When he bets there we exclude AK(as he is a nit and wouldnt thinvalue there).QQ seems his mostlikely holding, slimtonochance for KK, doubtful about 55. I def think he doesnt have flush there. Thoughts please.
9 handed
2 limps, villain(nit) makes it 12 on the button, i call w AKdd, bb calls , the 2 limpers call, 6handed to the flop:

Pot:60
KQ5dcc

Checked around to V, he bets 30 into 60, i call and utg+1 calls

Pot:150
5d

I c, utg+1 c, V bets 70, i call, utg+1 tankfolds

Pot: 290
2c

I c, he bets 120
1/2 deep river decision vs nit Quote
06-20-2013 , 11:43 PM
If this guy is really a NIT, what part of his range do you beat?

The only hands you could possibly be ahead of here are JJ and AQ. I don't see a real NIT firing at the river with JJ. He could be on AK which is a chop.

If your read is correct, you fold. If he could have a wider range than this, I think you can call, but, his line looks ultra strong as he is half potting every street.
1/2 deep river decision vs nit Quote
06-21-2013 , 12:45 AM
(post is hard to read .. try to layout the cards/action/descriptions together)

As played ... fold

Pre: If you want to control ranges/pot then a call here isn't the worst. Still I like a raise better.

Flop: Villain with betting lead, I like the check and call

Turn: I'm cry-folding here. Villain did raise on the button, got multiple callers behind, has kept firing half-pot bets into multiple callers, and the board has paired. With this line even calling on the turn you'll need to hit the flush draw versus a NIT and the price is not good here.

River: check/fold and hate yourself for not raising pre
1/2 deep river decision vs nit Quote
06-21-2013 , 01:49 AM
grunch: fold, villain doesn't seem to be scared, doubt he's bluffing, doubt he loses to 2 pair. if he was on a flush draw, he got there.

i would raise this pre. folding to a 4-bet is generally less expensive than folding later. are there are a lot of 4 bets in this game? do people 4 bet light a lot? most likely, i would think, you'd fold out everything that beats you other than a set/full house.
1/2 deep river decision vs nit Quote
06-21-2013 , 03:04 AM
he is a nit


this is a fold on a flushed paired board
1/2 deep river decision vs nit Quote
06-21-2013 , 03:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellegance
... and extract max thin value etc.
What does this even mean?

I don't mind the call pre, for exactly the reason you described: when you don't hit (more often then not) your 3! still obliges you to fire a c-bet at a bloated pot oop.

Otf, though, I'm gonna just donk out close to pot. That's a wet board, and we'll figure to have the best hand, and drawing hands need to be taxed to force them into mistakes. A check-raise is ok too, but I'm not a big fan of the move myself. Regardless, playing this flop passively is just asking for trouble. TPTK loses value as the hand progresses. We should be getting more in when we're ahead.

Don't be too worried about folding out hands you crush, rather seek value from decent lesser hands and draws (Kx, Qx, XXcc), which this flop oozes.
1/2 deep river decision vs nit Quote
06-21-2013 , 06:28 AM
3‒bet pre, you’re overthinking.

As played, fold the river.
1/2 deep river decision vs nit Quote
06-21-2013 , 10:27 AM
I think i call pre too. Depends just how nitty he was, i don't think we can get a real read based on 'quite taggy'. Did he ever give up in pots when faced with aggression? What types of boards did he show up without nuts on? Is JJ in his range? ATs? If they are, we can 3bet pre.

Based on him being a nit though:

I suppose he could be doing this with KJ, KT, but not likely as he's a nit who's fired a cbet into 5 villains.. I think at best we're hoping for an overplayed AQ or a chop.

Can't put him on the flush. If the Q isn't there i try to get it in at some point but i think the Q probably helps his range.

On a range of AA-JJ,AxKx,AxQx,AxKy,AxQy,KxQx,KxQy we're ahead on the flop. But just taking out JJ makes us an underdog, which i think we can do cause i don't think a nit barrels here with JJ on that board.

A possibility is he could have something like a combo draw. I think the call is fine as he may give up and we have TPTK but once he barrels 3 streets all we can do is shove over the top to rep the flush, but i don't think he would fold even KJ here as there's already so much money in the pot. I think we can probably give up the turn.
1/2 deep river decision vs nit Quote
06-21-2013 , 10:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 85chickasaw
grunch: fold, villain doesn't seem to be scared, doubt he's bluffing, doubt he loses to 2 pair. if he was on a flush draw, he got there.

i would raise this pre. folding to a 4-bet is generally less expensive than folding later. are there are a lot of 4 bets in this game? do people 4 bet light a lot? most likely, i would think, you'd fold out everything that beats you other than a set/full house.
Ppl dont 3b light i this game for sure
1/2 deep river decision vs nit Quote
06-21-2013 , 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulls_horn
What does this even mean?

I don't mind the call pre, for exactly the reason you described: when you don't hit (more often then not) your 3! still obliges you to fire a c-bet at a bloated pot oop.

Otf, though, I'm gonna just donk out close to pot. That's a wet board, and we'll figure to have the best hand, and drawing hands need to be taxed to force them into mistakes. A check-raise is ok too, but I'm not a big fan of the move myself. Regardless, playing this flop passively is just asking for trouble. TPTK loses value as the hand progresses. We should be getting more in when we're ahead.

Don't be too worried about folding out hands you crush, rather seek value from decent lesser hands and draws (Kx, Qx, XXcc), which this flop oozes.
By extracting max thin value I meant betting big and extracting max when its thin.

Donking is def a viable option as Im not really happy with how stacksizes will be like when we cr otf. And obv if we donk we need to go with the hand for stacks in case he raises.
1/2 deep river decision vs nit Quote
06-21-2013 , 11:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by llllllll
I think i call pre too. Depends just how nitty he was, i don't think we can get a real read based on 'quite taggy'. Did he ever give up in pots when faced with aggression? What types of boards did he show up without nuts on? Is JJ in his range? ATs? If they are, we can 3bet pre.

Based on him being a nit though:

I suppose he could be doing this with KJ, KT, but not likely as he's a nit who's fired a cbet into 5 villains.. I think at best we're hoping for an overplayed AQ or a chop.

Can't put him on the flush. If the Q isn't there i try to get it in at some point but i think the Q probably helps his range.

On a range of AA-JJ,AxKx,AxQx,AxKy,AxQy,KxQx,KxQy we're ahead on the flop. But just taking out JJ makes us an underdog, which i think we can do cause i don't think a nit barrels here with JJ on that board.

A possibility is he could have something like a combo draw. I think the call is fine as he may give up and we have TPTK but once he barrels 3 streets all we can do is shove over the top to rep the flush, but i don't think he would fold even KJ here as there's already so much money in the pot. I think we can probably give up the turn.
Folding turn doesnt really seem like a viable option to me tbh. Also pretty sure he wouldnt valuebet a hand like KJ otr
1/2 deep river decision vs nit Quote
06-22-2013 , 08:31 PM
Anyhow I tankfolded he showed 1010 in my face! Nh sir!
1/2 deep river decision vs nit Quote

      
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