Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
<img / Couldn't pull trigger, whiff my draw <img / Couldn't pull trigger, whiff my draw

07-11-2013 , 01:47 PM
I felt like I played this hand okay but would like some thoughts.

Hero has TAG image, getting much respect preflop and from my cbets etc def viewed as a competent player raising tight probably viewed as nitty, only shown strong holdings, haven't made it to the river too often Stack ~350

V1: competent reg came to table with ~500 up to about 800 now, has been seen playing connectors and draws aggressively, won a huge pot after c/raising flop w/ OESD and binking turn stacking 2 people

V2: loose aggro fish playing lots of hands and draws sometimes aggressively, winner tonight but usually pretty spewy but can read hands well

I open to 8 from MP with KTss, thinking I could cbet good flops and take it down with my image, v2 has been playing a lot of hands against me so I wouldn't have minded playing this against him, v2 calls on button, v1 looks at me and thinks for a moment and just calls.

Flop:
Ac4s5s

V1 again thinks and donks $16 into me. I feel like this was a feeler bet as v2 had donked into me twice before as well, I raise to $40 I think I should have raised more, was trying to rep AK and knew I should probably double barrel but felt like he was gonna snap me off. I figured with me raising, action would come back to me and taking a free river wasn't horrible. Perhaps calling here was an option? V2 probably would have come along but I do think I prefer my line.

V2 folds, v1 flats

Turn:
Ac4s5s9h

V1 checks...hero wants to bet but I'm still fairly new to live and trying to work on sizing and bluffing confidently in general haha, what would an appropriate bet here be with AK? With my hand? I thought for a moment but have to stop leveling myself that villain knows what I'm up to. I wasn't sure if i'd be able to throw a third barrel and felt he might float me again so...Hero checks hoping for a spade.

River blank

Villain checks, here again I thought about betting but thought I was getting snapped off with any A even though my line looks strong, obv betting turn would have been much stronger.

Any thoughts or tips on my posting or thinking are appreciated too...thanks guys
<img / Couldn't pull trigger, whiff my draw Quote
07-11-2013 , 02:15 PM
Comes down to how villian perceives you. OTF given the size of your raise there's two scenarios where he would bet/call:

1) He has AK/AQ/AJ and puts you on worse pair, naked draw, or combo draw
2) He has TT+ (probably with a spade) and he puts a lot of your range on draws

Your check back on the turn supports both scenarios so a bet on the river will probably get looked up. As played I'd just c/f the river.
<img / Couldn't pull trigger, whiff my draw Quote
07-11-2013 , 02:28 PM
Your sizing is too small all around.

Pre... $11 min. $13-18 is usually my range. Also, KTs is a very marginal holding. Probably muck it most of the time.

Flop... I love the raise, but again your sizing is wrong. Pot is $24, V1 donks for $16, and new pot is $40. Let's raise to $65 here. It'll be $49 to call for a pot of $154. This is a much tougher situation for V1, plus it properly represents your "strong" AK hand.

As played, I think you should barrel the blank turn. Given flop sizing, pot is now $104, I probably bet $60-75. Leaning towards $75 since our flop raise was to $40.

As played, on the river, if I was Villain, I'd look you up with a weak-A, or a decent PP, but probably not much else, so there's no point in betting here. You're not getting a call from worse, and most likely not getting better to fold.
<img / Couldn't pull trigger, whiff my draw Quote
07-11-2013 , 03:15 PM
Bet the turn, there is 104 in pot, bet 70. Also raise more on the flop, pot size makes it an easy call for V.

Sent from my DROID X2 using 2+2 Forums
<img / Couldn't pull trigger, whiff my draw Quote
07-11-2013 , 04:40 PM
Thanks for replies guys, as for pre a lot of my raises were getting folds and all around the table was playin pretty tight besides v2 so I wasn't trying to bloat the pot up too much if it would probably go heads up or 3 ways anyway. I suppose I do have to work on my sizing though for sure, I guess when I do have strong hands I need to be better bigger for max value and to put opponents on harder decisions. My biggest blunder was not firing the turn though, I'm familiar with the concepts but actually putting them in action when it's time and doing it smoothly, not fumbling my chips and such makes me err on the side of caution. This is definitely a spot though I should have used my image and positional advantage to take it. One of my plights is feeling like I'm too obvious when in going for value, say with AK, and too obvious when I actually am bluffing. But I guess with how I perceived my image this was a perfect spot to rep AK and have him fold out AJ-AQ as that makes up most of his range, and with my K blocker less AK's, i guess its possble he could be drawing to spades or OESD as well but i think he may have 3bet that. but iI don't think he would try to get tricky with any pocket pair here as my range as I feel I'd been perceived is only As and bigger pockets.
<img / Couldn't pull trigger, whiff my draw Quote
07-11-2013 , 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B
Thanks for replies guys, as for pre a lot of my raises were getting folds and all around the table was playin pretty tight besides v2 so I wasn't trying to bloat the pot up too much if it would probably go heads up or 3 ways anyway. I suppose I do have to work on my sizing though for sure, I guess when I do have strong hands I need to be better bigger for max value and to put opponents on harder decisions. My biggest blunder was not firing the turn though, I'm familiar with the concepts but actually putting them in action when it's time and doing it smoothly, not fumbling my chips and such makes me err on the side of caution. This is definitely a spot though I should have used my image and positional advantage to take it. One of my plights is feeling like I'm too obvious when in going for value, say with AK, and too obvious when I actually am bluffing. But I guess with how I perceived my image this was a perfect spot to rep AK and have him fold out AJ-AQ as that makes up most of his range, and with my K blocker less AK's, i guess its possble he could be drawing to spades or OESD as well but i think he may have 3bet that. but iI don't think he would try to get tricky with any pocket pair here as my range as I feel I'd been perceived is only As and bigger pockets.
Villain is probably never folding AQ or AJ here. Maybe he levels himself into letting AT go, but I doubt it.

Really the best thing to do in this spot is to actually have the A and then relentlessly bet for value since they're not folding.

I stacked a woman last night with AQo when she just wouldn't let her A-rag go on an A high, rainbow, unconnected board. All I did was bet, bet, shove for 70bb (total). She calls me on the river and shows me 1 ace after I turn my cards up.

I'm not saying you shouldn't bluff. You should try to get them to fold what ever equity they have left. Its just really tough to get LLSNL villains to lay down TPMK+ or an over-PP for less then 150bb.
<img / Couldn't pull trigger, whiff my draw Quote
07-11-2013 , 05:07 PM
Well idk against this particular villain I know I would not feel very comfortable calling a ~75 turn bet with anything but AK or 2pair+ as I wouldn't be expecting him to be value betting worse. I feel like this is how he viewed me so I think a semi bluff barrel could be justified surely to fold out many hands that are ahead right now. Obv against a fish I'm not expecting them to fold any ace although its possible because even to them they had observed that I was not just splashing money around and they're Ace would probably not be good there unless they improved. But again I thought he still might look me up with those hands but surely I could fold out AJ or AQ with a river barrel but again I didn't think I had quite the balls to do that but I feel it would have worked, at least with my image.
<img / Couldn't pull trigger, whiff my draw Quote
07-11-2013 , 05:40 PM
*grunch*

Flop
raise size should be bigger. $50 would be the minimum to me. a pot-size raise is 72, and I wouldn't fault you for betting that big either. I think an appropriate bluff size depends on how you normally bet your value range (or your perceived value range). it would also depend on your previous raise sizing. I like to bet big with big hands, so in this spot I would be more apt to make it 65-75. however if you've shown a willingness to make middling raises with hands like AK here then you should do that.

Turn
there's not 1 correct answer to your action here. given your sizing I think taking a free river is fine. your small raise bought you a free card, which is a standard TAG winning play.

it appears your image is good enough that you can profitably barrel turn here and a solid reg should be able to fold AJ. I think this is a spot where things like your bet sizing, how you make the bet, and your posture are important. common mistakes are to bet too quickly, which tends to be a bluff tell, or too bet too small which looks like a scared draw/weak made hand. the most important consideration is what your opponent thinks you would bet with AK (not what you would actually bet!).

River
as played, I don't think it's great to bet river here. the board is wet enough on the flop that you are probably betting turn with TP and checking back river. furthermore, it appears that you haven't been pot-controlling on the turn very much given your OP says haven't made it to the river much. so, once you check turn I think you have to give up.

there is some case to be made for a value-bet bluff (1/3-1/2 pot size) on the river to fold out his mid PP and 5x/4x hands since you don't have to succeed very often for it to be profitable. I don't think Ax is ever folding, and this isn't a great strategy since he shouldn't have many of those hands given flop b/c (though it's possible he just thought you were FOS).

if you bet turn and get called, I don't think you can bet river again. you would certainly check back AK some of the time, and most likely would check back all other AX. his b/c/c line also looks like the hand you're trying to rep, and can also be a set that is letting you hang yourself. the fact that you're unlikely to 3-barrel might be another reason to make a turn bluff here, since it's a true semi-bluff and you know you are shutting down on river bricks.
<img / Couldn't pull trigger, whiff my draw Quote

      
m