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1/2 Correct to bet river after missing FD? 1/2 Correct to bet river after missing FD?

02-16-2016 , 05:29 PM
I would like to get some advice for the future here on how I played this hand:

1/2 table on Sunday. Table has been active. Been sitting at the table for a few hours. Nothing crazy of note so far.

Relevant stacks:

Me (BTN): $350
V1 (UTG +1): $250
V2 (CO): $300

Reads on villains: V1 is a typical OMC, have not been involved in any hands with him. V2 is a young kid sitting with his GF behind him. I've tried to bluff him on an earlier hand and folded when he check raised. I didn't have much and just folded. He seems to like to chase as I've seen him either hit or miss on the river a few times. When he missed he shut down some and became pretty aggressive when hitting.

Preflop:

I have K5

V1 raises to $10. two others call including V2.

I call. I was at the end of my session and was feeling good so thought I would take in a flop before leaving and not playing again for a while. I guess this is pretty bad but I'm far from perfect.

Flop ($40) A 7 9

V1 bets $15, MP folds, V2 calls I call. I thought about raising but really didn't want to get carried away here and I figured that I was getting such great odds to call. I also figured that V1 was strong being an OMC and leading into 4 people on an ace high flop.

Turn ($75): Q

V1 bets $36, V2 calls as do I. I'm calling $36 to win $183 if my math is correct. The plan was to fold if I missed and head home. Again, I am thinking that V1 is pretty strong and V2 is either chasing or has a weak ace.

River ($183): Q

V1 checks, V2 checks. Hero??

Should I be checking behind a lot here or only betting with great reads on villains? It kinda shocked me when they both checked.

Thanks for any input. I'm still trying to learn.

Last edited by Garick; 02-16-2016 at 05:42 PM. Reason: removed results
1/2 Correct to bet river after missing FD? Quote
02-16-2016 , 05:39 PM
What's OMC?

Personally, i would fold pre.

When V1 cbets $15 into $40, I would raise him. Most would cbet bigger with hands like AK because they fear the FD, especially multiway.

I would also check back river because I'd assume one has a FD and the other has an Ace. A lot of times players go into c/c mode OTR because they fear getting raised. I also have a rule that I don't try to bluff guys who have their gf sitting behind them. They don't wanna look bad by folding. The corollary is that you value bomb them because they'll pay you off rather than fold while his girl is watching.

Last edited by Garick; 02-16-2016 at 05:42 PM. Reason: removed reference to results
1/2 Correct to bet river after missing FD? Quote
02-16-2016 , 05:46 PM
OP, please don't posts results. It skews responses. I edited them out.

Fold pre. Your hand is crap, and an OMC (Old Man Coffee, DTLB) opened in EP and got called by someone who is likely trying to impress his girl, so even with position you are unlikely to have the FE or anywhere near the best hand.

AP, raise flop as noted above. Good time to semi-bluff, since you got a miracle flop and weak action in front.

AP to turn, calling is fine as you have expressed odds and may overflush someone.

AP, to river, check back. You rep nothing.
1/2 Correct to bet river after missing FD? Quote
02-16-2016 , 05:52 PM
Thanks for the replies and I will not post results next time. I have a lot to learn but will start with folding pre. I think a lot of my hand histories I've posted here all would have been better if I folded pre. Would A5 cc been ok to call with?
1/2 Correct to bet river after missing FD? Quote
02-16-2016 , 06:03 PM
Note: Guys who have their girlfriend sitting behind them are typically loose-passive or bad LAGs. They want to show their girlfriend how "great" they are at poker. This typically involves bluffing and/or chasing draws.

Note: Don't post results. You should of stopped the hand after they checked and asked "Hero?"

PF: "I was at the end of my session and was feeling good so thought I would take in a flop before leaving...." This kind of thinking is exactly what gets you in trouble. Stop thinking this way. Anyway...you know the answer. Fold pre! Calling with AcXc might be OK depending on the other stack sizes and the tendencies of the blinds.

F (43): SPR is ~6.5 (CO), and ~5.5 (OMC). No reason to raise. I'd take the free card. If the OMC has an Ace, he will cbet something like $30 to $40; this is becasue he fears the flush draw. Seems like he has a hand like TT-KK given his UTG+1 PF raise and the weak bet on the flop. I don't see this bet as strong at all.

T (88): Not sure how the pot is $75 if three people put in $15 on the flop. Again, this $36 bet is weak; not sure what these less than 1/2P bets mean. We are getting laid direct odds of $88+$36+$36;$36 or $160:$36 or 4.4:1 (19%). We have 9 outs for an 18% (4.6:1) chance to hit. This is almost a breakeven call for direct odds but with implied odds, we can safely call. Calling is the way to go.

R (196): Again, your pot size is screwed up (I know mine might be a bit high becasue of rake was not deducted). The board is Ac 7c 9d Qh Qd. I don't think I would put the OMC on an Ace here judging by his bet sizing and I don't think that the CO has a Queen becasue you would of heard from him on river. Now the CO may have a weak Ace that he is calling down, but the passive line looks like a drawing hand. What hands are we repping on the river though? QcJc, KcQc and that's about it. I think that betting 38%P here is border line "OK" based on the betting/calling lines of the two Vs and counting on the fact that these Vs are not Level 2 thinkers.
1/2 Correct to bet river after missing FD? Quote
02-16-2016 , 06:41 PM
Definitely fold preflop. I would usually 3 bet or fold preflop with this hand and these stack sizes, but in this situation, I would fold because I don't expect a "typical OMC" to fold to a 3 bet very often because he has such a tight opening range.

Calling pre definitely can be profitable when you have position and are against weak players, but as you acknowledge, you're just trying to learn, so you should play tighter and let your range do the work for you.

On the river I would just check. On a draw heavy board against weak players, good players will take bet, bet, check/call lines with TP. Though, if villains are really bad and nitty I'd try to represent a Q, but I'd need such a read to try that.
1/2 Correct to bet river after missing FD? Quote
02-16-2016 , 06:51 PM
On the flop we need to be raising. The OMC bet $15 into $40. After being called by V2, we should be raising here as a semi-bluff with the NFD. We can put a lot of pressure on weak A's (which I do NOT expect to fold) but we can probably fold out all other single pair hands by squeezing this to ~$75, which is a fine result. Also, we will likely get action from weaker flush/straight draws, against which we have fantastic equity.

V2 has added a lot of dead money to this pot, and his range is pretty weak. If we get 3! on the flop by V1, I think we can comfortably fold tbh because we will be getting <3:1 and that is roughly our equity against a range of AK+, and if V2 shoves on us we are beating him into the pot.

On the turn as played you should consider bombing it as a semi-bluff for similar reasons as above, except now we're behind to some more pair+FD combos. We take it down a lot and still have equity to improve.

As played I'm probably not bluffing this river, because at $1/2, getting someone to fold a pair of aces is harder than a teenager at a strip club. That said, (and from your description of the hand at the beginning you don't have this play in you) if I"m bluffing the ONLY size I'm considering is all-in. It's roughly a pot sized bet, needs to work 1/2 the time to be profitable. But you're going to be puking when you get hero-called by V2 with a 9 because your hand is pretty face up.
1/2 Correct to bet river after missing FD? Quote

      
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