1/2

Hero ($650) opens $10 with 96cc UTG,
6 calls.

Flop ($70): Ac Ts 7c
Hero bets $40, 2 calls

Turn ($190): 9s
Hero ?

Both Vs are old/tighties and have roughly $150 remaining.

Hero checks, V1 (lady, MP) moves all in for $150, V2 folds, Hero ?


P.S. I know it’s an obv fold pre but I was feeling frisky because of a mega whale in BB ($500 eff) and remaining table playing tight/faceup so whatever.

Shove turn. Neither villain has a lot of 2 pair+, so we should have some fold equity. The flopbet could also be bigger imo, depending on stacksizes behind.

AP you need to win 30% of the time i think, so we need about 15 outs on average. If villain is shoving often with just the bare ace, we can (barely) call, otherwise it should be a fold. Which is another reason to shove turn ourselves.

Pre is waaaaaaay out of line, but whale hunting is fun, so whatever.

There's "feeling frisky" and "playing blatantly bad".

This is def one of those...

Pre is awful, if the whale is bad enough that you really want to go hunting, then limp. Just fold the hand though, it's actually pretty hard to make a hand that will stack the whale with 96s.

Jam turn, if you're considering calling the jam after checking third pair, you know you ****ed up. As played, probably a fold.

Have you shown down a frisky hand yet? If not this shove feels like 2p a whole lot, and you're not quite getting strict odds. But also doesn't seem so far off if you can rebuy no issue and/or are planning to stay for a while.

I too prefer shoving turn ourselves against these Vs. Also like taking the tighty A line from time to time when semibluffing A high boards.

^ I’m pretty confident she always has atleast 2p there. So even if I shoved turn, she was never folding.


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She might fold one pair hands that beat you though. Check fold is a bit better than jam if she has two pair, but it's not very consequential compared to taking it down with a hand that isn't winning.

I can’t see her shoving any 1p hand here unless it’s exactly AK.

Agree that is probably mostly how it goes. But I think you go for it and when you've shown down win or lose you want to have been the shover.

What you doing in the first place with 96s?
What's the purpose to play that trash? - You got no suited-big-card-value or suited-connectedness-value. - So, you got nothing of value but trouble. It’s very important to be aware when you step into a pot with a hand because it sets the tone of the hand when the flop comes down. You got to have a clear plan like what you looking for with your hand to accomplish? With 96s, I must say that not many thing can be done unless you flop a miracle. By calling preflop with a hand you’re investing in the pot and you got to be doing this for the right reasons. Either you have a better hand vs. your opponent or you have the skill advantage over your opponent, otherwise you have no business to enter a pot. You don't want to enter a pot with the plan of drawing because that's not a plan. Drawing on the flop is part of "equity-when-called" but not the main trust of you strategy of taking pots down.

Fold
Players in 1/2, 1/3 and 2/5 don't bluff enough according to optimal frequencies for you to call a shove all-in turn bet. Most 1-2 players would hem and haw on this decision. Some want to fold, others might want to call, but most of them have no idea what to do. They all think it's a difficult decision.

You cannot draw when villain shoves all-in almost a pot size bet. He's got to bluff a significant percentage of the time when he makes moves like this one for you to sniff his bluff, and even in that case you'll be breaking even.

I’d fold in half a second. There’s no question about it. Fold preflop, Fold on the flop, Fold right now and salvage what's left, get it over with. He's representing an Ace or better and wants to protect against the draw. You are drawing and way behind. Fold and listed to a old man with over 60 years playing this game for living. Fold or I will take your money the next time you come to Vegas.

Why are you betting the A-high flop into 6 players? You have like zero fold equity, you're just bloating the pot and possibly knocking out weaker draws. Just check and try to draw cheap. If one of the nits bets small you might end up getting a lovely price to see the turn.

I don't know why this is a thread, but o.k. then, I'm betting $11 as it appears table dynamic gets a lot of callers & everyone seeing the flop donates $1 to the rake.

I am in the camp of "WTF did you bet the flop?!"

I can't imagine the 9 OTT being helpful, but eh, I guess it was, otherwise this wouldn't be a thread.

Now I've seen a whale open for $18 UTG, 3 callers & Button calls with something like 95s etc., flops 2 pair & stacks whale, because it came A95.

you have 30% equity against her range and you are getting 2.3 : 1. sure. call. gambol. it is about a neutral EV situation.

or, fold. it is about a neutral EV situation.

the flop bet is fine. the only hand that really crushes us on the flop is two broadway clubs. Every other hand we have enough equity against our V's to get it in on the flop.

Sure, stacking off isn't a disaster but the flop went 7 ways and we are apparently first to act unless the blinds are in. We can bet and possibly get raised by the real hand and stack off with decent but non-favorite equity, or we can check and get to see what others do first. If someone else bets and gets a couple callers you're either getting a great price or even a chance to raise with a solid semi-bluff instead of the pot-bloating flop lead.

The only relevance you should take from this hand and any resulting comments etc is that you are opening way too wide. The rest is kind of negligible as this isn't a situation that should arise going forward. However, once you've taken that decision, I agree that the flop 7 handed is a check. You have little to no fold equity on this board texture and only 2 streets worth of betting.... And once we reach the river, check/calling or folding is indeed neutral. If they only ever have 2pair plus it is a slightly losing call but throw in AK and it becomes a slightly winning call not to mention any other Ax that shoves here as they might well do. That probably means that shoving is the correct decision as at least you have the opportunity to fold out Tx that beats you and maybe even some Ax but I don't think you will achieve that outcome all that frequently. At least it is some added fold equity nonetheless.

when you are considering the x% of the time we bet out and take down the pot on the flop, and the other times where one of our V's spazes out and gets it all in BEHIND our equity, the end result is not that much different.

with of course, the exception of when one of our V's has two broadway clubs.

there is nothing wrong with checking, going for pot control, and reducing our variance. But if H is a LAG playing against a table of weak/tight V's there is metagame value in keeping the pressure on the table.

the flop bet is fine

If we check the flop, if someone bets, we are calling. Then when we miss the turn, we end up check/folding to a bigger bet.

Looks like a slightly weak way to play such a good flop.

Fold pre, fold flop, x/fold turn.