Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
1/2 live JJ played badly? 1/2 live JJ played badly?

03-14-2018 , 05:03 AM
1st time poster looking to improve at poker. Played a hand today that the more I think about the worse it looks...

Villain is a reg, he's pretty solid and seems pretty balanced.

8 handed - There's a 5 straddle, villain raises to £15 in MP and I call in BB with JJ, stack size £400ish effective.

Flop comes QQ8 rainbow I check, villain bets 20, I call

Turn 3 I check, villain bets 100, I think for a bit and call

River 3 I check, villain tanks and goes all in for 250ish, I tank and fold

My thoughts as this played out were:

Preflop: I wasn't paying attention (guy next to me was asking about a previous hand) and I thought £15 was a big raise from him (usually opens with £10) and I'm OOP so calling with JJ probably better. - didn't notice there was a straddle until after.

Flop - I feel fine about calling

Turn - the bet from my opponent felt pretty big here, it's worth noting that he does this quite often but I'd never seen a showdown hand from him when he'd done this previously - also the woman to my right after the hand said she didn't call preflop because of his tendency to bet large - more on this later

River - my thought process here was that villain saw me call £100 on the turn and should expect me to have a strong hand here, 250ish when I've called £100 shouldn't seem like it would push me off a strong hand. I didn't put him on a Q but thought he may have AA/KK. My line in checking 1st could have given him the reassurance that I didn't have Q, most probably just an 8 and he could value bet this river.

The more I think about it now the more this seems like it should have been a 100% call. If I'm folding JJ here I'm not really ever calling with anything other than Q or better. Also by flatting the raise preflop my hand is pretty underrepped and he could be holding 99 or TT. Mostly though, being OOP just gives him licence to bluff with almost any two cards here right?

After the hand finished the woman to my left said she had KQ and folded it because of what I mentioned above. This didn't effect my thoughts on the way I played this hand.

Any thoughts?
1/2 live JJ played badly? Quote
03-14-2018 , 06:16 AM
Honestly I’m probably folding the turn. You are going to have something like 21 combos of Q’s and 88 to defend on the turn and this isn’t a spot where I think he’s bombing it too often as a bluff.

You aren’t under-repping your hand after you have called turn, JJ isn’t that high up in your distribution at this point. Under-repped would be if you called with JJ on a T-5-2-2 board.

If he had TT or 99 he’s kinda losing his mind here, you are never folding a Q so what is he trying to get you to fold? A8s or 98s? If he actually is solid I would say he has 88, AQ, maybe KQ, and some air, but he shouldn’t be betting TT for that sizing for value and it’s a weird bluff.

Last edited by Badreg2017; 03-14-2018 at 06:22 AM.
1/2 live JJ played badly? Quote
03-14-2018 , 07:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badreg2017
Honestly I’m probably folding the turn. You are going to have something like 21 combos of Q’s and 88 to defend on the turn and this isn’t a spot where I think he’s bombing it too often as a bluff.

You aren’t under-repping your hand after you have called turn, JJ isn’t that high up in your distribution at this point. Under-repped would be if you called with JJ on a T-5-2-2 board.

If he had TT or 99 he’s kinda losing his mind here, you are never folding a Q so what is he trying to get you to fold? A8s or 98s? If he actually is solid I would say he has 88, AQ, maybe KQ, and some air, but he shouldn’t be betting TT for that sizing for value and it’s a weird bluff.
Thanks for the feedback, I was thinking along similar lines when I played the hand. I should fold the turn in future spots like this
1/2 live JJ played badly? Quote
03-14-2018 , 09:21 PM
Whilst it's not terrible to flat pre, I lean towards 3betting to $60.

You claim that you missed the action, which is extremely dangerous, since this not only affects your preflop play, but it also significantly changes postflop too, since you're now giving him a much tighter range than what you otherwise would have given him.

I'm going to analyse this hand under the assumption that you saw the entire action, so anyway:

Flop is a pretty clear x/c. Not much to discuss here.

Turn is a x/f without reads, since you're facing an overbet ($100 into $70) and most players are simply never bluffing in this spot. We also block a lot of semibluffs like JT and J9, if villain is even capable of making this play with those hands at all. I'd expect villain to have trips or better around 90% of the time here.
1/2 live JJ played badly? Quote
03-14-2018 , 09:25 PM
The turn over-bet is a strong move, I can see calling but once V fires sizable again on the river I'm giving him credit for a Q. Unfortunately I'm folding the river AP as well. I would prefer a 3b pre flop.
1/2 live JJ played badly? Quote
03-14-2018 , 09:37 PM
The other thing to note, as Badreg pointed out, is that we have plenty of trips and boats in our range, so we can defend with those instead. We don't need to be defending against overbets with mediocre hands when we're uncapped.

Also, villains who continue barreling, raising and overbetting into an uncapped range are usually extremely nutted. It's like if someone were to raise you on an AKK flop after flatting pre, knowing that you could easily have all kinds of boats, trips and TPGK hands. They're almost always going to have trips or better in that spot.
1/2 live JJ played badly? Quote
03-14-2018 , 09:46 PM
There are definitely players that are capable of bluffing like this, but until I know they get out of line a lot Im folding this turn.

I agree that if you call turn here you should usually call river because you are putting him on a bluff, but I wouldnt call the turn unless he is a habitual bluffer.
1/2 live JJ played badly? Quote
03-15-2018 , 04:49 AM
Thanks for the feedback everyone, appreciate it
1/2 live JJ played badly? Quote

      
m