1/2 Can I find a Fold here? - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

OTB

Limps to Villian UTG +1 who makes is $7.00

Folds around to Hero OTB, I make it $15.00.

Folds around to Villian that ships it putting me all in..

Fold or call?

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09-06-2011 , 11:13 AM

abgtr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 5,855

wayyyyy moreeeee preeeeee.

bc you made it so small, I guess I fold. We put in 15 and have to call 185 more. Forget that.

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09-06-2011 , 11:22 AM

fun101

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,237

i am also wondering why u made it soo small. I would also like more info but against a random recreational donk (who is not nitty) i would probally call.

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09-06-2011 , 11:26 AM

Badb19

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 283

Make it atleast 28 pre, now fold

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09-06-2011 , 11:45 AM

Superman1

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,556

Grunch

Sounds like a pretty easy snap fold. You will have plenty of opportunity to get this type of villains money, no reason to ship 100BB's with whats probably a coin flip.

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09-06-2011 , 01:08 PM

Rmitch223

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 178

Yeah, I should have layed it down probally, but thought for a moment knew he was probably shoving light and called, he shows pocket sevens and I completely miss. Then I had some guy talking **** that Im a bad player for making the call, and I told him if I wanna get my money in on a coin flip thats my business not his....but I agree agianst any other player I would have layed it down.

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09-06-2011 , 05:15 PM

L wanderer

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 300

pretty easy fold with a small % of stack in pre, but if more invested and bankroll can manage swings i can find the call button.

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09-06-2011 , 05:29 PM

livegrinder

banned

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,308

Actually it's fine. Vs 77

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 52.310% 52.12% 00.19% 21417936 79146.00 { 77 }
Hand 1: 47.690% 47.50% 00.19% 19519068 79146.00 { AKs }

And we need roughly 46% equity to b/e (after rake). If you can afford the $200 variance, then sure. Also way more pre.

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09-06-2011 , 06:08 PM

cAmmAndo

The Situation

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,729

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rmitch223

1/2 NL
Limps to Villian UTG +1 who makes is $7.00
Folds around to Hero OTB, I make it $15.00.
Fold or call?

Curious why the mini-3bet. Seems bad and I am just wondering if you do this a lot with AK. Any chance this is a severe bet sizing tell on your part? Not that players at 1/2 need any reason to "put you on AK" but... Just askin' since I don't see a lot of 4bet shoves 100 BB deep w/ 77 in my 1/2 games unless there is a lot of dead money in the pot.

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09-06-2011 , 06:22 PM

#10

The JO Show 601

centurion

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 118

To the people who said he should have raised more pre:

What do you do if you face a shove after making it 28? Are you saying that 3betting more would make him less likely to push it in?

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09-06-2011 , 06:43 PM

#11

ledoutwbottomset

banned

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,439

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rmitch223

1/2 NL

$200 effective

Villian is extremely loose and a recreational donk.

Hero has A

OTB

Limps to Villian UTG +1 who makes is $7.00

Folds around to Hero OTB, I make it $15.00.

Folds around to Villian that ships it putting me all in..

Fold or call?

Grunch

3 bet way larger like 27.
As played fold. Unless u want to flip for your whole stack in a 1-2 game. Which of course would be LOL if u have any kind of edge

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09-06-2011 , 07:32 PM

#12

rndapology

enthusiast

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 70

AKs has some great fold equity pre-flop since you scare the daylights out of less than QQ when you 3-bet and even if get it in most of the time you're flipping. But there is no fold equity if you only raise it to $15 from $7. In fact, you're more likely to get shoved over on because it looks so weak/shifty.

Fold as played, make it more like $30 if you want to 3-bet here. If he still shoves, call. Unless you get some read that he's totally unfazed about the $30 and ships it instantly,etc.

Last edited by rndapology; 09-06-2011 at 07:33 PM. Reason: typo

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09-06-2011 , 09:32 PM

#13

endodocdc

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,012

was it an insta ship or did he think before shoving??

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09-06-2011 , 09:50 PM

#14

JMurder3

not god, probably jebus

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 53,649

Quote:

Originally Posted by ledoutwbottomset

Grunch

3 bet way larger like 27.
As played fold. Unless u want to flip for your whole stack in a 1-2 game. Which of course would be LOL if u have any kind of edge

While the advice here is fine, saying that it's LOL to take what would be a +Ev flip because you have an edge is LOL advice, assuming you're properly rolled for the game you're playing.

In this case, calling means you'll lose bout $7 on this hand on avg, and folding means you lost $15 on the hand, so calling is $8 better.

If properly rolled, the reason to fold is if you think villain's range is weighted stronger to AA & KK than it is toward hands we are ahead of. If villain flips over his hand though, this should be a call.

Last edited by JMurder3; 09-06-2011 at 09:55 PM. Reason: Oops. Forgot rake/tip. Basically calling is still $5 better, though.

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09-06-2011 , 10:00 PM

#15

JayKon

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,444

I understand the raise size, as I used to do it. It is based on pure dollar amounts, not the pot, or what the villain will have to call.

To fix it, count the pot, minus the rake and AFTER your call amount. In this case it it would be: 1+2+2+7+7-5=14. Then you decide what % of the pot you want to raise. If a PSR, then 14+7=21.

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09-06-2011 , 10:15 PM

#16

LolPony

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 4,126

Quote:

Originally Posted by ledoutwbottomset

Grunch

3 bet way larger like 27.
As played fold. Unless u want to flip for your whole stack in a 1-2 game. Which of course would be LOL if u have any kind of edge

This is kind of a silly way to think considering he could definitely be doing this with AJ-AT. You will never be worse than a coinflip IMO as he isn't going to 4b ship with AA or KK.
(as already covered raise more pre haha)

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09-06-2011 , 10:37 PM

#17

ledoutwbottomset

banned

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,439

Quote:

Originally Posted by LolPony

Do you know what a Grunch is. It means you read op then post your thoughts, so how the f do I know 3bet has been discussed. It was just the first thing about the hand that jumped out. Sure he can show up with AQ here or even worse, I just believe there are better spots to get 100 bb's in. The dude in green a few posts earlier made much more sense, when explaining my flawed logic

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09-06-2011 , 10:43 PM

#18

LolPony

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 4,126

Quote:

Originally Posted by ledoutwbottomset

Yes I know what a grunch is...
Wasn't trying to be condescending, 3bet wasn't discussed, all he said was he was an extremely loose donk, so I think AT-AQ would be in his range.
I don't disagree with you, because I'm probably folding too. Just devil's advocating I guess haha.

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09-06-2011 , 11:27 PM

#19

michaliv

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 229

Without any more information I would fold here. I am sure there will be places to get your money in where you are a lot more of a favorite. Just let him have this one...I'm sure he will be giving it back before long.

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09-07-2011 , 05:50 PM

#20

Rmitch223

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 178

He thought for a tiny bit then shoved, my read was a coin flip or better.
I usually raise alot more pre but I thought I had the best hand and wanted him to call and outplay him postflop, because most 1/2 players post flop game is horrible.

If I make it 25+ he would probally lay down his hand most of the time, but who knows agianst this donk. I never seen someone shove 77 in this situation, Im sure he spewed it all back that night lol

My bankroll could handle the 1 BI loss and I just wanted to felt this guy so bad and I figured he was shoving light. Agianst anyone else I would have layed it down.

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09-07-2011 , 09:42 PM

#21

livegrinder

banned

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,308

Quote:

Originally Posted by ledoutwbottomset

Grunch

3 bet way larger like 27.
As played fold. Unless u want to flip for your whole stack in a 1-2 game. Which of course would be LOL if u have any kind of edge

cause it's like a tournament right?

Last edited by livegrinder; 09-07-2011 at 09:43 PM. Reason: slow pony is slow

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09-09-2011 , 07:34 PM

#22

mp2012

banned

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 753

Quote:

Originally Posted by The JO Show 601

To the people who said he should have raised more pre:

What do you do if you face a shove after making it 28? Are you saying that 3betting more would make him less likely to push it in?

Villain never has AA or KK in his range given his line, after putting in 28 with what is likely the best hand, you have correct odds to call if your opponent is slightly ahead with a hand like 22-QQ, and your likely dominating any other hand in his range...

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09-09-2011 , 08:14 PM

#23

AfootDread

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 550

Grunch. Raise more pre, like 25. Then snap call.

Extremely loose Rec player? There is enough aq/aj/small pairs in his range, plus dead money in the pot to make it profitable. Don't shy away from variance.

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09-09-2011 , 11:47 PM

#24

quesuerte

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayKon

Quote

09-09-2011 , 11:57 PM

#25

JayKon

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,444

Quote:

Originally Posted by quesuerte

explain.

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