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1/2 c/r bluff river against best player 1/2 c/r bluff river against best player

05-04-2019 , 09:15 AM
So cliff notes this isn't how I played the hand i c/f river but I paused and considered this...

Villain is the best player in the game. I've seen him value bet thin, 3 barrel and he takes his game seriously. I feel he thinks of me as ok but weak tight. Of the 10-12 hours we've played together I spent one session super card dead so I did a ton of folding. That being said I have called him down when he fired 3 barrels with a weak pair because he was very polarized before.

UTG is loose passive fish.

$450 effective

UTG limps hero makes it $11 w/ KQ, villain calls from hj and utg calls

Flop $36 - AKQ
X, hero bets $23, hj calls, utg folds

Turn $82 - 6
Hero checks, hj checks

River $82 - 6
Hero checks, hj $50

What are your thoughts on c/r here to $175 or $200?
1/2 c/r bluff river against best player Quote
05-04-2019 , 10:32 AM
What do you think he’s targeting with his bet? If H thinks it’s a chop, you’re always calling. And you can’t beat an Ace although H should have more Aces here having raised preflop.
1/2 c/r bluff river against best player Quote
05-04-2019 , 10:42 AM
I like how you’re trying to find a good spot to bluff this player if he thinks you’re weak-tight, but I think this is a really bad spot for it and here’s why:

You raised pre and then the flop hit your range hard and you bet again.

Here’s the important part though... the turn is the biggest brick possible and now you check. I’m not sure why you did that.

The river now has completely polarized your hand to either a monster (boat) or exactly the type of hand you have (counterfeit two pair).

If V is the best player at the table he will think your line is fishy. If he thinks you’re super weak-tight he may let it go, but chances are strong that he has an Ace here, and I don’t think he’s folding more than half the time. Which is the price you need for this bluff to be profitable.

Most importantly, just bet this turn again.

But I like that you’re trying to find good spots to bluff this guy. That’s a good counter to your image with this guy. But your line needs to be believable against a really solid player or he’ll snap you off with too many hands here.
1/2 c/r bluff river against best player Quote
05-04-2019 , 10:43 AM
So I think his calling range of my +1 open is relatively strong.

Some more info in the hand where I called his 3rd barrel when he was polarized. He mumbled something about depolarizing the river or something about being too polarized.

I could easily see him betting AJ here with my line. I look pretty weak here so if I were him I'd bet AJ trying to get a crying call from something like KJ. I wouldn't have bet as big, I think I'd bet $25ish with AJ.

I also see him betting AQ or AK, but I'd discount AK as he flatted pre. Obviously if he decided to make an abnormal play pre he could also have QQ-AA but I block Ks and Q's. I wouldn't put it past him to flat AA pre, but feel he's less likely to do it with KK and QQ due to them being vulnerable to an A.
1/2 c/r bluff river against best player Quote
05-04-2019 , 10:52 AM
So about my turn check. The more I think about it the less I like it.

At the time I felt with my image I'm probably not getting 3 streets. So I assumed I could bet turn and get called by AJ type hand. If so I'm betting $60ish then checking brick rivers and having to decide if I want to call if he bets.

I figured if turn checked through I could fire pretty big for value on a blank. I think my line would look pretty bluffy if I fired $100 on a blank river.

Long story short I thought 2 streets was my max value oop and I thought river was easier to get value instead of turn then checking.
1/2 c/r bluff river against best player Quote
05-04-2019 , 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Barbero
So I think his calling range of my +1 open is relatively strong.

Some more info in the hand where I called his 3rd barrel when he was polarized. He mumbled something about depolarizing the river or something about being too polarized.

I could easily see him betting AJ here with my line. I look pretty weak here so if I were him I'd bet AJ trying to get a crying call from something like KJ. I wouldn't have bet as big, I think I'd bet $25ish with AJ.

I also see him betting AQ or AK, but I'd discount AK as he flatted pre. Obviously if he decided to make an abnormal play pre he could also have QQ-AA but I block Ks and Q's. I wouldn't put it past him to flat AA pre, but feel he's less likely to do it with KK and QQ due to them being vulnerable to an A.
So he’s obviously a thinker, idiosyncrasies notwithstanding.

Why not just call the 50 bucks? You are good or chopping half the time. If you’re no good you will have learned a lot about him because you’re going to make him show the winner.

You should have bet this turn. Why tilt yourself by messing up a fancy play on the river? The 50 is cheap tuition. I screw up like this once per session at least.
1/2 c/r bluff river against best player Quote
05-04-2019 , 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanishmoon
So he’s obviously a thinker, idiosyncrasies notwithstanding.

Why not just call the 50 bucks? You are good or chopping half the time. If you’re no good you will have learned a lot about him because you’re going to make him show the winner.

You should have bet this turn. Why tilt yourself by messing up a fancy play on the river? The 50 is cheap tuition. I screw up like this once per session at least.
I'm not sure if you read the hand right. Calling down is burning money imo. It's either a raise to get him off Ax (given we block so many houses, and he doesn't have many boats in his range). Or fold. Calling seems the worst option, unless I'm missing something.
1/2 c/r bluff river against best player Quote
05-04-2019 , 05:54 PM
$12 pre. Not only is it one more dollar, it is a better size if the game is raked.

Blast this flop. Pot, or close to it. Many hands can call. He probably won't fold any ace on GP, regardless of bet size. Because you are so strong here, he will probably call all pairs + gutters figuring he can stack you when he hits.

You can bet more modestly on the turn. You've built a pot up so now you are still getting a lot of absolute money in. You might even shift down to slightly below 1/2 pot. Maybe an ace finds another call. The gutters missed and only have 1 more chance.

AP, you can't bluff. You've shown weakness. He's shown weakness. He knows he's shown weakness. KK and QQ make little sense for you.

If you bet the turn, you could conceivably c/r river. He might be afraid to bet at that point. It would be worth losing a bit of ev if once in a blue moon he folds jt face up. But it might be +ev. He should fold a lot of aces, if he bets them.
1/2 c/r bluff river against best player Quote
05-04-2019 , 08:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ES2
$12 pre. Not only is it one more dollar, it is a better size if the game is raked.
No rake it's a home fame. I just like betting prime numbers (see flop bet). It helps me keep track of how well my brain is functioning during a session and when it might be time to take a break or head home.
1/2 c/r bluff river against best player Quote
05-04-2019 , 10:45 PM
I like it. But bet the turn.
1/2 c/r bluff river against best player Quote
05-05-2019 , 07:04 PM
Turn is a obv bet.

River fine to bluff raise, he’s pretty capped and it’s pretty hard for you have a bluff. Just know that your money doesnt come from FPS and fancy bluff raises
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