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Old 05-31-2014, 09:56 PM   #1
Moneyline
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1/2 Bluff the scare card, call down light, or fold?

Very tight/passive table with 2 loose/passive players on my immediate right.

MP is one of the fish. He sort of has a clue, but he's stuck and seems steamy over losing & the tightness of the table. He likes to limp/call preflop, and while still loose/passive postflop, he likes to take stabs at pots nobody seems interested in. MP thinks I'm super tight, and the blinds are complete rocks. I cover the effective stacks.

7 handed. MP ($135) open limps, I call from CO with A 6, button folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop ($8): Q 6 3

SB checks, BB checks, MP bets $6, I call, blinds fold.

Turn ($17 post-rake): K

MP bets $11, I raise to $30 total, MP calls.

River ($74 post-rake): 8

MP checks, I check.

Comments on all streets welcome.
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Old 05-31-2014, 10:04 PM   #2
GrindPokerAllDay
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Re: 1/2 Bluff the scare card, call down light, or fold?

Fold Flop. Fold Turn. You played the river well.
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Old 06-01-2014, 01:38 AM   #3
Flatbarrel
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Bluffing for me would be to push someone of a spade draw that backed into a pair. This way you can beat slightly more than just the missed spades.

However, i really try and live by 'never bluff a fish' . Ap, check. But dont get here to start. Esp from 4 handed flop
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Old 06-01-2014, 02:43 AM   #4
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Re: 1/2 Bluff the scare card, call down light, or fold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrindPokerAllDay View Post
Fold Flop. Fold Turn. You played the river well.
I don't like fold flop at all. Enough spade draws + other stuff. We also improve to 2p with an A and such. I think call and reevual turn is best.
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Old 06-01-2014, 03:51 AM   #5
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Re: 1/2 Bluff the scare card, call down light, or fold?

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I don't like fold flop at all. Enough spade draws + other stuff. We also improve to 2p with an A and such. I think call and reevual turn is best.
We are 20% vs a Queen and we are behind the vast majority of flush draws..even 78ss is a favorite vs our hand. Calling here is just bad poker.
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Old 06-01-2014, 04:28 AM   #6
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Re: 1/2 Bluff the scare card, call down light, or fold?

^Also we're not closing the action; SB and BB are still in the hand. Continuing here without a specific plan is awful. We don't have enough equity to continue against his range, and this is absolutely the wrong player to pull elaborate bluffs against.
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Old 06-01-2014, 05:35 AM   #7
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Re: 1/2 Bluff the scare card, call down light, or fold?

If you are gonna bluff raise OTT, bet about 60 OTR. Normally I would overbet the river for about 100, but MPs stack is too small for that. A bit over half should get the job done, if your read of his read of you is correct.
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Old 06-01-2014, 07:55 AM   #8
daniel9861
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Re: 1/2 Bluff the scare card, call down light, or fold?

I'd iso raise pre unless BTN was loose pre and sticky post.

Flop flat is fine.

Fold turn. You're not repping much with a bluff raise and I don't think he double barrels with air often enough to make calling profitable. Calling might be ok if the plan is to bluff spades on the river when checked to.
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Old 06-01-2014, 11:00 AM   #9
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The river is a good card to double barrel bluff. If he has a Q it's going to be hard for him to call since you're repping Kx. He also could have had a flush draw and ran in to the 8 which has you beat but would still be hard for him to call.
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Old 06-01-2014, 11:26 AM   #10
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Re: 1/2 Bluff the scare card, call down light, or fold?

I agree with fold the flop. He's a passive player, but he's leading out. You said he'll take stans if nobody is interested, but you haven't even had a chance to show him you're not interested yet. Also, passive players tend to not bet draws. He probably has a good hand here. Most likely a Q ( you likely have only 5 outs). Less likely a set ( He probably would check this, but if he has it you're practically drawing dead). It will be tough to get a loose passive off a queen here if you call to bluff later.

On the turn you must fold. He already showed interest even before you acted on the flop. Then you called and showed you have something. Now what should be a scary card for a Q comes out and a passive player leads into you again. You're in a terrible spot here. Fold.
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Old 06-01-2014, 11:36 AM   #11
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Re: 1/2 Bluff the scare card, call down light, or fold?

Raising pre is the best play. Call flop is fine, folding is fine. Whatever.

Turn is either a raise or a fold. Sometimes the bluffs don't work and you did well to not compound the problem by pounding the river.
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Old 06-01-2014, 11:52 AM   #12
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Re: 1/2 Bluff the scare card, call down light, or fold?

Isolate preflop, the whole hand changes.
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Old 06-01-2014, 08:11 PM   #13
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Re: 1/2 Bluff the scare card, call down light, or fold?

If you're not raising this pre, the $2 limp is pretty much a flush-mine. I wouldn't fold if you flopped trip 6s but I'm folding everything else.
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Old 06-01-2014, 08:21 PM   #14
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Re: 1/2 Bluff the scare card, call down light, or fold?

Fold pf. A6s is one of the hands people lose the most money with. The fact that you didn't even raise with it suggests you're going to lose money with it too.

Calling second pair in a MW limped pot is burning money. So you decide to represent you had KQ on the turn? Unlikely it is going to be believed but if that's the line you're taking, you need to fire big on the river to have any chance to win this hand. Ten years ago, yeah people would have believed you got lucky. Today, you need to fire the final bullet to get folds.
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Old 06-01-2014, 11:01 PM   #15
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Re: 1/2 Bluff the scare card, call down light, or fold?

Excellent description of the Villain but bluffing wont be easy.

Stuck and Losing - He wants a win and he wants it bad!!! If he gets a piece of a board he's not getting off easily.

Angry at the Tight Table - This guy wants action! Since he's passive he wants others to give it to him.

Even when the King peeled off he continued to call with his pair. You're finally giving him the action he's been craving! To blow this guy off you're going to have to blast that river and pray he doesn't call.

Often we think it's easy to exploit frustrated players, but with frustration comes recklessness, so it's better to value town this guy with made hands or push him off boards we know he doesn't have a piece of.

Last edited by Jet$on; 06-01-2014 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 06-02-2014, 12:40 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10 View Post
Fold pf. A6s is one of the hands people lose the most money with. The fact that you didn't even raise with it suggests you're going to lose money with it too.

Calling second pair in a MW limped pot is burning money. So you decide to represent you had KQ on the turn? Unlikely it is going to be believed but if that's the line you're taking, you need to fire big on the river to have any chance to win this hand. Ten years ago, yeah people would have believed you got lucky. Today, you need to fire the final bullet to get folds.
Why not limp for $2? That's a small investment with deep effective stacks.
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