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Old 06-26-2018, 02:57 PM   #1
Jamlana
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1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

Hero$165(BTN):20s African American female. Has been playing at this poker room for 3 days straight now. The table is familiar with hero. Majority of the players are use to Hero being aggressive but during this time she is extremely tight.



Villian #1 #2 and #3 are all new to the table, this is their 1st hand lol So I don't really have a read on them besides their stack size, race and betting actions on this hand

Villian #1 ($300 UTG) is late 20s Caucasian man.

Villian #2 ($350MP) is a late 60s Caucasian man, moved from a different table

Villian #3 ($200LJ) is a MAWG.

Hero is given AA on the BTN.

All 3 villains are the only limpers in the pot. limped to Hero who makes it $!5. All 3 limpers call. blinds fold

Flop ($63-rake) is 1052

Villian #1 checks, Villian #2 makes it $40. Villian #3 calls, Hero???
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Old 06-26-2018, 03:06 PM   #2
RagingOwl
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

The Ac wpuld be your best target for value in this situation, but since you have it in your hand, thats out. So I dont see a great reason to raise here.

Just call and see what develops
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Old 06-26-2018, 03:26 PM   #3
c0rnBr34d
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

I saw this exact hand happen Saturday. In that run out Hero raised and Villain jammed. Hero sigh called and spiked the flush OTR. Villain cursed and left the table felted. I don't think this is a calling spot with your stack size. I think this is a fold or jam spot with $100 in the pot and $150 behind in our stack. I think I'm going broke here. Two pair seems unlikely on this board but we could certainly be facing a set or a made flush. We could also be good against pair plus draw hands. Tough with no reads but often when you flop a strong flush you dont donk off a 2/3 pot bet with 2 players behind unless you dont like money. Maybe I'm leveling myself into a jam, idk. I'll defer to the experts.
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Old 06-26-2018, 03:29 PM   #4
Jarretman
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

I would make it bigger pre in most 1/2 games but it's nit picking; 15 is fine (unless you meant 5! in which case that's way too big ).

As played I'd jam the flop with only $150~ left. It's not like we're folding any turn so why let them realize their equity for free if they are behind or fold their non-club hands on club turns?
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Old 06-26-2018, 07:24 PM   #5
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

All in confidentially...might get a fold
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Old 06-26-2018, 07:32 PM   #6
Avaritia
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

High five the cocktail waitress. Tip the dealer. Shake a few peoples hands. Then send it in.
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Old 06-26-2018, 07:35 PM   #7
BIoodRose
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

Pair and flush draw is good enough to be played aggressively, over pair with nut flush is also good enough.

If we just fold all our aces on a board like this, we are folding too much, I don't like a call unless it is to induce others to come in and playing our hand purely for flush equity, in which case, we are value owning ourselves way too often, therefore I am jamming it in here.
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Old 06-26-2018, 07:37 PM   #8
MikeStarr
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

Quote:
Originally Posted by c0rnBr34d View Post
I saw this exact hand happen Saturday. In that run out Hero raised and Villain jammed. Hero sigh called and spiked the flush OTR. Villain cursed and left the table felted. I don't think this is a calling spot with your stack size. I think this is a fold or jam spot with $100 in the pot and $150 behind in our stack. I think I'm going broke here. Two pair seems unlikely on this board but we could certainly be facing a set or a made flush. We could also be good against pair plus draw hands. Tough with no reads but often when you flop a strong flush you dont donk off a 2/3 pot bet with 2 players behind unless you dont like money. Maybe I'm leveling myself into a jam, idk. I'll defer to the experts.
Fold? Are you insane?
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Old 06-26-2018, 07:40 PM   #9
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

you just need to get your chips in the middle. You can't possibly fold and you can get value from dominated pairs and dominated flush draws
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Old 06-26-2018, 07:40 PM   #10
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

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Fold? Are you insane?
+1 wtffffffffff?
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Old 06-26-2018, 08:49 PM   #11
UntimelyBluff
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

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High five the cocktail waitress. Tip the dealer. Shake a few peoples hands. Then send it in.
This lol absolutely dream scenario and unfortunate if you didn’t scoop a big pot.
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:30 PM   #12
Garick
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

Grunch based on title alone: Please wait until all of the action is complete to run around the table saying "woooo" about getting all of your chips in here.
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Old 06-27-2018, 04:39 AM   #13
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

Never fold but maybe a small raise (even min) is better than shoving. While calling can work out sometimes we won't get any action if another club rolls off

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Old 06-27-2018, 11:01 AM   #14
c0rnBr34d
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

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Fold? Are you insane?
I was thinking in general, and more specifically heads up, like the other example. If we know both players will call your shove then it's +EV and you guys can do all your fist pump stuff and continue to ask about my mental health. But if you shove and only get called by the made flush your are -EV to draw for your stack there. If you could see your opponents made flush face up and heads up do you still ship it every time? I know the counter argument will be that you cant be sure they have the flush and they could fold a small flush a small percentage of the time, but if you're facing a super nit or have a soul read and you're not the last to get your stack in 3 ways, please show me how this math is +EV.
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Old 06-27-2018, 04:04 PM   #15
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

You're maybe -15% EV (vs. folding) when called by a made flush and the Villain who folds had a club in his hand. This is the case much less than half the time.

The rest of the time your +EV more than makes up for that scenario.

Pot's 143 and you have 150 left with the AA overpair + nut flush draw + back door str8 possible.

If you fold here (or really do anything but snap shove), I'd be tempted to say never play poker again.
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:14 PM   #16
au4all
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

This situation is super-common. We either have the best or second best equity.

The only question to consider: Will shoving get us heads-up against the best of the remaining hands, or is some other outcome likely?
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:34 PM   #17
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

OP,

I would raise to $90 or $100.
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:40 PM   #18
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

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Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
High five the cocktail waitress. Tip the dealer. Shake a few peoples hands. Then send it in.
Strong is weak bro, strong is weak.
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:28 AM   #19
shorn7
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

Yeah with your stack I think the only play is to jam.
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Old 06-28-2018, 12:04 PM   #20
deeeznutz
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

Yes, for sure this is a jam. Your SPR is like 1 and your hand is way too strong to fold so you might as well just stick it in. If they’ve got a set, you’ve got 11 outs to the river and still got 7 outs against a flopped flush. Given the size of the pot, the caller can prob find a call against you with KT with Kc, 3 combos, and that situation is quite profitable to offset when you’re beat.
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Old 06-28-2018, 12:29 PM   #21
donkatruck
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

I'm never folding this hand, but is a shove really good?

If we shove, we have a decent chance of folding out the hands we absolutely don't want to fold (AT, Kc type hands). We are never going to make a lower flush or a set fold. So shoving really only helps our case in the 20% of the time we hit the flush on the turn and V2 has a weak flush on the flop.
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Old 06-28-2018, 12:49 PM   #22
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

Hero started the hand with 80 BB’s. Not much else to do. More interesting spot is if everyone is 300-400 effective in which case I like a flat better.
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Old 06-28-2018, 01:04 PM   #23
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

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Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
Hero started the hand with 80 BB’s. Not much else to do. More interesting spot is if everyone is 300-400 effective in which case I like a flat better.
Do you think AT/KT/QT/JT or a naked Kc are folding or calling a shove here?
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Old 06-28-2018, 01:09 PM   #24
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

That’s too general of a question and depends on the players but nobody is folding Tx with a and a naked K probably isn’t folding either for this price at a 1/2 table.
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Old 06-28-2018, 09:34 PM   #25
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Re: 1/2 Black Aces vs a possible multiway shove on club flop

Call seems way better
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