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1/2 big turn over-bet 1/2 big turn over-bet

01-30-2014 , 03:02 PM
1/2 home game. 6 handed at 1:30 am Wednesday morning.
V is a african-american 50ish year-old. Plays a lot of hands, but often folds (sometimes to extremely small bets) when played back at. He is friends with a big bluffer who busted from the table. He is sitting directly on my right.

We played a significant hand before the hand in question. I had $180, and V has about $1k

I had J8 in BB. 2 limpers, V calls in the SB, and I check

Flop ($8): J-6-8 rainbow
V checks
Hero bets $6
one limper (utg) calls
V calls

Turn ($26): A
V bets $65
Hero takes time to think (30 secs?)
V calls clock.
I didn't think he had much, so I shove.
utg folds
V folds quickly.


Now, the hand in question.
I have $225, and V has about $1.6k

V raises to 15 in MP, I call with QdTd, person to my left calls

Flop ($48): Q-6-2 rainbow
V bets $25, everyone calls

Turn: ($123): J
V bets $200
Hero?

Do you think this might be the same situation as before?
Please feel free to critique both hands.
1/2 big turn over-bet Quote
01-30-2014 , 03:19 PM
I feel like villians call clock and then concced to later make you do it again when they have it. I like the play in hand one. Hand 2 I may 3 bet that QT hand to iso him if im ip.

As played I may raise this flop to once again iso $25 flatter sounds so weak, and mr 1k wants to run over the game and we cant let him cause were probably way ahead of all his middle pairs and over cards AK KJ AJ AT etc and some Q8/Q9 combos, and I feel like hes C-betting around % 50

The jack is a blank to me and im stacking off against a big stack in hopes of cleaning up.
1/2 big turn over-bet Quote
01-30-2014 , 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QKinHearts
I didn't think he had much, so I shove.
If he didn't have much, then what's the point of the shove? If you thought he was bluffing with nothing, then why not let him hang himself on the river? If the shove is for value then you are betting 2.6 times his bet to get him to call with worse hands such as any Ace or worse two pairs like 86 or J6.

Hand 2:

What's your position? I'm assuming the person to your left has position on everyone. The guy just bet $200 into a $123 pot which puts you all in. You really want to gamble here with TPWK for a little over 100bb, especially with someone left to act? I just fold.

In this hand there is one more player so more players means villains tend to play more straight forward, although I understand this is a big overbet. I just have a feeling he wants you call. Again, just fold.
1/2 big turn over-bet Quote
01-30-2014 , 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Below Zero
If he didn't have much, then what's the point of the shove? If you thought he was bluffing with nothing, then why not let him hang himself on the river? If the shove is for value then you are betting 2.6 times his bet to get him to call with worse hands such as any Ace or worse two pairs like 86 or J6.

Hand 2:

What's your position? I'm assuming the person to your left has position on everyone. The guy just bet $200 into a $123 pot which puts you all in. You really want to gamble here with TPWK for a little over 100bb, especially with someone left to act? I just fold.

In this hand there is one more player so more players means villains tend to play more straight forward, although I understand this is a big overbet. I just have a feeling he wants you call. Again, just fold.
^^This... Also, freakin home games. I guess I've been in similar spots and called here; but without throwing logic out the window and going for the soul read this is a definite fold.
1/2 big turn over-bet Quote
01-31-2014 , 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Below Zero
If he didn't have much, then what's the point of the shove? If you thought he was bluffing with nothing, then why not let him hang himself on the river? If the shove is for value then you are betting 2.6 times his bet to get him to call with worse hands such as any Ace or worse two pairs like 86 or J6.

Hand 2:

What's your position? I'm assuming the person to your left has position on everyone. The guy just bet $200 into a $123 pot which puts you all in. You really want to gamble here with TPWK for a little over 100bb, especially with someone left to act? I just fold.

In this hand there is one more player so more players means villains tend to play more straight forward, although I understand this is a big overbet. I just have a feeling he wants you call. Again, just fold.
Also for hand 2, I was debating on this. Should I have raised flop?
1/2 big turn over-bet Quote
01-31-2014 , 01:47 PM
This time V is the aggressor on the flop. There's a considerable difference between him raising pre, firing flop and overbetting turn, than in hand 1 where V limps in, check calls flop, and leads a scary looking turn. Hand 1 looks a lot more FOS than this one. How deep is the third player in the hand? Does the $200 bet cover both of you? Did the J put a flush draw on the board? Sometimes guys will often bet big to protect their AQ/KK/AA when the board gets more drawy (even though no draws would feasibly get to the turn in the first place). Even aggro players get hands/hit the board sometimes, I'm folding this one and not feeling too bad about it.

Also fwiw I don't like calling $15 with QTs pre this shallow. I'd probably want to have to be at least $400+ effective to consider calling off that much or even 3betting. Plus you end up in marginal situations too often (like this one).
1/2 big turn over-bet Quote
01-31-2014 , 02:28 PM
Hand 1: ... if you think he is light, bluff catch.

Hand 2: Fold pre ... not deep enough (if he is bad you can consider calling at like $300-$350+, as played- I would not look too much into the past situation as it is very different and ... you jammed on him. I am folding here without any additional info.
1/2 big turn over-bet Quote

      
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