New 1/2 table full of randoms

5 limps, Hero ($300) in BB bumps it up to $20 with AQo, MP ($250) and BTN ($150) call.

Flop ($70): K74r
Hero bets $35, MP folds, BTN calls

Turn ($140): 7x
Checks through

River ($140): 9x
Checks through

BTN shows 42ss!

As long as you can't provide any observations about the villains whatsoever, no, you should not double barrel. I'm confident you wouldn't have asked this question if the villain had 72o.

How about potting flop? I feel like that works more often than a $35.

Probably. Generally if you bet one street you should bet the next street. Not always, but like 70 percent or so, more or less depending on board texture. People fold way too much on the turn.

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Yeah, but it's difficult to assign him a range that will fold turn given his stack size, no? Like 7x caught trips, Kx is now committed, and I don't expect him to have garbage like 42s or random straight draws because he called $20 pre.

How was this determined?

The issue is fold equity and that is villain dependent and learned over time.

Potting the flop works more often for what? Getting him to fold bottom pair? We normally dont want people folding bottom pair.
1/2 pot is good on a dry flop like this.

[Grunch, well kind of] When I saw Shai Hulud was last poster, whom I believe is a LAG, I thought I'd post my reply w/o reading others & see how I fair.
However, venice10 was 1st reply & I couldn't stop myself from reading. That being said:

Pre, being OOP & 5 limpers, I am going to try & rep AK or JJ. Something they think would be happy HU at best. So I'm betting $24 pre.

This play, however, is only made when I know my Vs tendencies. Against unknowns I don't even raise. AQ isn't suited & if I don't know them, they don't me & they'll never expect a limp [hopefully] with AQ.

Flop: If 2 of the 5 limpers [1 being SB] calls, that leaves $6 + $60 = $66 - $7 rake & BBJ where I play, leaving $59. $35 bare minimum in my book [prefer $40], but I don't win 10BBs per hr long term, so what do I know. I bet $40, again only against known players.

Because you posted results, any other comment by would be skewed. However, since I would only raise pre knowing my Vs, I'd know that guy with 42ss is type of guy to call 1 street, at least, with bottom pair.

However, when the Turn pairs the 7 vs. 2 Vs, I'm done with it w/o reads, which come seldom to me.

Most player types fold too much on the turn. I don't know this from vast experience but from reading books from others with vast experience.

Only stations tend to call enough (too much). Some LAGs if they're good. Some maniacs also, but good LAGs and maniacs are rare in low stakes games.

Agree the 7 is not the best barreling card and as far as board pairing cards is probably the worst for us as PFR but villain needs to call OTT around 70 percent to make checking preferable. If your reads lead you to think villain is continuing that often then check. But generally I'm barreling HU on any card that changes hand values OTF.

One more thing... if you do bet the turn you should bet most rivers. If your plan is to double barrel and give up you're probably better off just giving up OTT or even OTF. Much of the value from C-betting comes not just from immediate folds but from building a pot to steal barreling the turn, and much of the value from turn barreling comes from building a pot to steal on the river. The river bluff is unique because you no longer can steal on a future street, so your bluff needs to succeed right out more often, but most players fold too much on the river also.

If you barrel 2/3 the time each street then we are C-betting 2/3 the time, betting the turn 4/9 times, and betting the river 8/27 times.

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Betting flop and checking turn is probably the worst of your 3 options.

Try putting together ranges for each street. 1. What you expect people to limp/call pre. 2. What you expect people to continue flop. 3. What you expect people to call turn. Even without thinking about it, I bet you figure opponents fold some top pairs. But work through it and figure out exactly what % of the flop continue range that works out to. Then figure out how profitable a 70% pot turn barrel should be.

If people are calling pre with such weak hands then one and done'ing postflop is a big leak. You're almost making it correct for them to call pre if they can just call flop when they hit and fold when they miss.

I'd actually prefer to check this flop with aq and instead bet and barrel weaker hands that have no chance of being good at showdown. But if I had 98s then I'd likely be firing twice.

Did Doyle Brunson, Stu Ungar, or Dan Negreanu ever say this?

Um, (bet, bet) (check, check) (check, bet) (bet, check). I count four.

I'd have to be a donk to have 98s in this spot. A typical raising range from the blinds here should be big pairs and big aces, KQs type hands. This board also looks like a great board to cbet for the PFR as it should miss a caller's range a lot. Agreed it's not great ONLY IF l knew the guy was calling so wide, but against others, I think it's a mistake to check and telegraph weakness/let them realize their equity.

Why should a raising range only include those hands?

(There are a few fine reasons I can think of. But I wouldn't say it's automatic.)

I agree that it's a good board to cbet and there is value in denying equity. However we probably shouldn't cbet 100% of the time. So of all the hands we can have, I want to check ones that can be good unimproved and which improve on few turns.

LOL.

Well, in that case, I assume you're checking a 773r board too? Which is also a great board to Cbet.

Probably check heads up and cbet 3 ways. We have more equity on 773 multiway than k73.

I guess the hands I would be checking mw on 773 are low Broadway. Where a flop bet is likely not folding better (obv all pairs call, better 2 overs call too) and where there aren't great turn cards (not thrilled about making tp3k, overs hit that flop continuation range, and we rep pretty thin barreling on an undercard)

The idea that you should be blindly double barreling bc villains fold ott so much is silly...texture and ranges need to be considered. The middle card pairing is usually the nut worst turn card to double barrel.

Now think of which cards are good to barrel. (They are cards that give us additional equity, and they are scare cards)

I think that you played the hand just fine. We paid for information. Now use it. We now know that the player on the button is an epic monkey calling station. Let's value bet this guy into the felt.

+1

Grunch.

Maybe.

It depends on reads on V's and flop texture. In HH, this flop is a great flop to cbet: dry and with a high card. It's hard to hit and hits your perceived range hard so you should get a ton of folds.

However, once you're called, it becomes more likely V has a real hand. That's typical. If the flop is dry, but V calls, they don't likely have a draw and so are more likely to have hit something reasonable.

That said, there are LLSNL V's that will peel the flop really light. Identifying those V's is key because the flop cbet changes its purpose against them. We actually want them to call the flop because we're going to double barrel almost every time, they're going to often fold, and we're going to win more from the flop call.

Of course, doing that against a fit/fold player that calls the flop is terrible.

Contrast this with a wet flop. We're less likely to cbet a wet flop, since they tend to hit a PF calling range more than a PF raising range and there are more hands that can find a call. However, if we do bet the flop and the turn is a brick, we can double barrel to move draws off their hand. The wetter the flop and the brickier the turn the more likely this is to succeed.

In other cases, when the flop is wet and the turn somewhat improves the hands that would call the flop (say, adding a pair to a OESD or FD), we can consider barreling the turn (expecting to usually get called) and then barrel brick rivers, expecting folds from all those draws that missed.

Edit after reading responses:
Thinking about betting larger because someone called too light is exactly the wrong adjustment. Yes, obviously value bet, but also realize he's probably not calling the turn in this case. We can both value bet him to the felt sometimes and also get him to contribute to the pot and then fold sometimes. Yum.

Pairing turns can be bad barreling cards, but it depends on texture and reads. Often, having the top card pair is terrible since many V's will substantially discount the chances we have it.

Continuing our action ~70% of the time is a very rough approximation of some GTO principles. It's valid, but we can do better by exploiting V's tendencies, especially at low limits, where those tendencies tend to be exaggerated and consistent.

I would only triple barrel in specific circumstances, either to exploit good reads I had on V's or to make use of a really good runout for bluffing. In a tougher game, I'd have to do this more often to avoid having V's fold to my triple-for-value hands.