Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-24-2018, 07:01 PM   #1
hyperknit
veteran
 
hyperknit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 2,152
1/2 AKs OOP

1/2 effective 440.
Hero LAG/aggressive image.
HJ solid TAG winning reg.

HJ opens to 10. Hero SB AKss reraises to 40. HJ calls.

(82) Flop QJ7hss
Hero checks. V bets 40. Hero raises to 140. Call.

(360) Turn 7c
Hero bets 260 all in.

Line check pls and thank you.
hyperknit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2018, 07:04 PM   #2
wait
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,115
Re: 1/2 AKs OOP

Not sure about the c/r. C-bet seems better.
wait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2018, 07:09 PM   #3
hyperknit
veteran
 
hyperknit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 2,152
Re: 1/2 AKs OOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by wait View Post
Not sure about the c/r. C-bet seems better.


Iím thinking we can c/r a range of:
AA-JJ, AKss, A5ss, AKsx

At least AA and Kk benefit from a c/r flop, Shove turn line since they donít want to a see a river anyways.

Also I expect villain to be defending preflop with lots of AQ, KQ, JT, KJ, etc so we can expect a bet at a high frequency, so a c/r with strong hands is logical.

Also we should get floated here OTF a lot so cbetting AK wonít be pretty.

Is this logic flawed?
hyperknit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2018, 07:37 PM   #4
FightingFish
centurion
 
FightingFish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Melbourne, AUS
Posts: 151
Re: 1/2 AKs OOP

What is your Cbet range then? That check/raise range includes some pretty marginal one pair hands and i'd rather bet more or less nutted to CR.

I think i'd just C-bet AA, KK, AKss, AQ
C/R QQ, JJ, A5ss
Check/Call AJ, KQ..

Something like that. Do you have 9Tss in your 3bet range here?
FightingFish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2018, 08:06 PM   #5
hyperknit
veteran
 
hyperknit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 2,152
Re: 1/2 AKs OOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by FightingFish View Post
What is your Cbet range then? That check/raise range includes some pretty marginal one pair hands and i'd rather bet more or less nutted to CR.

I think i'd just C-bet AA, KK, AKss, AQ
C/R QQ, JJ, A5ss
Check/Call AJ, KQ..

Something like that. Do you have 9Tss in your 3bet range here?


No cbets here
hyperknit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2018, 08:20 PM   #6
PhilosophersPhlop
stranger
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 13
Re: 1/2 AKs OOP

I prefer a cbet here to a check raise, and I say so because I believe, if your opponent is in fact a solid tight reg, than he will only continue a range of hands that have you beat equity wise, whereas if you were to simply c-bet, he would continue a much wider range, making your c-bet and subsequent barrels +EV. Lets start by identifying a flop bet range. When you check, your opponent has the ability to now bet 100% of his button cold call range, which I would think could look something like this {22-AA, A2s-AKs, all broadway suited and unsuited as you say, and 45s-910s, and suppose the occassional J9s-K9s}. Now, the majority of these will clearly be bluffs and equity denials, with value beggining with some middle pair hands (if he supposes you to check/call 10s, AK AQ gutters, and open-enders). Now the problem with a check raise here is your range is simply too strong. Even at your worst your drawing to the nut flush with A5s or the nut gutter with a potential two live overs, which is a decent amount of equity for villian to want to hero call race against at times. You would have to do some serious range balancing in this spot by working in some significant bluffs frequently, inclining villian to call much more liberally always. If you estimate his check range continuation range as {77, 89ss, 910ss, JJ-AA, Q10o-AQo, Q10s-AQs}, which is probably top weighted, as he may just be reluctant to call off the very likely turn all-in with his weaker top pairs, than your equity share is 49.573% while his is 50.427%. Now, lets look at equity shares at reasonable c-bet calls. supposing he calls that whole range minus KK,AA, sets and top two (because he will be inclined to raise those more often than not) plus {J10o, KJo, J10s, KJs, J9s, Q9s, K10o, K10s, AJo, AJs, AKo, AKs} the equity shifts dramatically to roughly 59% vs 40%, with you at 59%. Plus, if your image is moderatly LAG, but not LAG enough to check raise air in this spot, your c-bet will likely frequently get "paid" (abviously you still have yet to hit, but your still getting paid I would say), plus at least another barrel or two. He can still make a mistake and fold top pair weak kicker too! Also, even if he does smooth sets, top two, and big pocket pairs here occasionally, the range equity is still 56% vs 43% in your favor. So, if you find yourself in this spot again against this player type, barrel barrel barrel, because check raise just looks way to strong.
PhilosophersPhlop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2018, 08:54 PM   #7
tensor0910
grinder
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: WA
Posts: 441
Re: 1/2 AKs OOP

Not crazy about the c/r. Most of of his range that calls a 3! would call this flop. If youre looking to build the pot for your draw then lead out.
tensor0910 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2018, 11:06 PM   #8
DrChesspain
Pooh-Bah
 
DrChesspain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,998
Re: 1/2 AKs OOP

The turn push seems spewy, since the TAG is already putting down roots.
DrChesspain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2018, 11:53 PM   #9
jambre
adept
 
jambre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,181
Re: 1/2 AKs OOP

Logic seems fine to me, though I would be more inclined to x/c with AA on this board as you may be blocking his weaker betting hands (AXss and AQ), and you probably don't want your x/c range to be just AQ/KQ/AJ.

I'd also ship the turn.
jambre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2018, 12:11 AM   #10
Man of Means
Pooh-Bah
 
Man of Means's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,591
Re: 1/2 AKs OOP

In a vacuum, I kinda like the postflop line, though your fold equity might not be where it needs to be if you have "LAG/aggressive image." If you're looking at this line as part of a larger strategy and you need to have some bluffs/semibluffs then yeah.
Man of Means is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2018, 05:27 AM   #11
Minatorr
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 5,226
Re: 1/2 AKs OOP

Id just cbet flop, i dont really see why we’d really ever have a x/r range here. Our AA/KK just want to either bet or check. I guess you might want to x/r QQ/JJ but if we do that our betting range has 0 sets in it.

Ap turn is fine.

Im sure this line is +EV but i jusy prefer a bet. As an exploit you can xr if IP player cbetd too much and doesnt defend enough vs cbets, but doesnt really seem like the case or mention of it
Minatorr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2018, 06:16 AM   #12
Badreg2017
veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,900
Re: 1/2 AKs OOP

I don’t mind it since this is going to be a tough board to just go bet bet and get a lot of folds on given how much of his range is going to flop a piece of the board. Flop checking through is fine as well. I like this a lot more if you think he’s going to bet Jx or 7x here on the flop and doesn’t check back enough marginal made hands. We are flipping even against a relatively strong betting range so I don’t think bloating the pot can be too bad here.
Badreg2017 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2018, 06:36 AM   #13
hyperknit
veteran
 
hyperknit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 2,152
Re: 1/2 AKs OOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilosophersPhlop View Post
I prefer a cbet here to a check raise, and I say so because I believe, if your opponent is in fact a solid tight reg, than he will only continue a range of hands that have you beat equity wise, whereas if you were to simply c-bet, he would continue a much wider range, making your c-bet and subsequent barrels +EV. Lets start by identifying a flop bet range. When you check, your opponent has the ability to now bet 100% of his button cold call range, which I would think could look something like this {22-AA, A2s-AKs, all broadway suited and unsuited as you say, and 45s-910s, and suppose the occassional J9s-K9s}. Now, the majority of these will clearly be bluffs and equity denials, with value beggining with some middle pair hands (if he supposes you to check/call 10s, AK AQ gutters, and open-enders). Now the problem with a check raise here is your range is simply too strong. Even at your worst your drawing to the nut flush with A5s or the nut gutter with a potential two live overs, which is a decent amount of equity for villian to want to hero call race against at times. You would have to do some serious range balancing in this spot by working in some significant bluffs frequently, inclining villian to call much more liberally always. If you estimate his check range continuation range as {77, 89ss, 910ss, JJ-AA, Q10o-AQo, Q10s-AQs}, which is probably top weighted, as he may just be reluctant to call off the very likely turn all-in with his weaker top pairs, than your equity share is 49.573% while his is 50.427%. Now, lets look at equity shares at reasonable c-bet calls. supposing he calls that whole range minus KK,AA, sets and top two (because he will be inclined to raise those more often than not) plus {J10o, KJo, J10s, KJs, J9s, Q9s, K10o, K10s, AJo, AJs, AKo, AKs} the equity shifts dramatically to roughly 59% vs 40%, with you at 59%. Plus, if your image is moderatly LAG, but not LAG enough to check raise air in this spot, your c-bet will likely frequently get "paid" (abviously you still have yet to hit, but your still getting paid I would say), plus at least another barrel or two. He can still make a mistake and fold top pair weak kicker too! Also, even if he does smooth sets, top two, and big pocket pairs here occasionally, the range equity is still 56% vs 43% in your favor. So, if you find yourself in this spot again against this player type, barrel barrel barrel, because check raise just looks way to strong.
damn u really gotta hit me with that unpunctuated wall of text ok brother i feel u.

basically what i got from this is u think c/r is bad because my range will be too strong.

well ok that may or may not be true but even if it is true we can just add AK combos to balance if youre worried about that.

I mean the real point of contention for me is this: some spots u want to bet your range. Some spots you want to check your range. (and some spots u want to bet part of your range and check part of your range).

I think the flop is a spot where we want to check our range.
WHY?
BECAUSE:
if we cbet we will get floatted very wide and many turns make it difficult for us to play OOP.
if we cbet and bet/bet/bet were not really getting AQ maybe KQ to fold on dry run outs. (And were probably not getting paid if a Ten rolls off)
if we check we might see a turn for free
if we check/raise we can end the hand on the turn (AA and KK would like benefit from this)
if we check/raise we can polarize and put AQ and KQ into bluff catching mode right away.

Objecting that if we check our range that our c/r range will be too strong is kind of a surface level objection imo. (we can always just add some more bluffs if we want).
hyperknit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2018, 09:26 AM   #14
snowman
old hand
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: ON THE ROAD AGAIN
Posts: 1,498
Re: 1/2 AKs OOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperknit View Post
1/2 effective 440.
Hero LAG/aggressive image.
HJ solid TAG winning reg.

HJ opens to 10. Hero SB AKss reraises to 40. HJ calls.

(82) Flop QJ7hss
Hero checks. V bets 40. Hero raises to 140. Call.

(360) Turn 7c
Hero bets 260 all in.

Line check pls and thank you.
Your line is more easily sold if you have a TAG image
with a LAG image your range is perceived to be much wider

I'm snap calling you with as little as 88 here
snowman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2018, 09:30 AM   #15
Jkpoker10
veteran
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,100
Re: 1/2 AKs OOP

Easy c bet in a pot you 3 bet pre. Iím probably cbetting and jamming over a flop raise by villian.
Jkpoker10 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive