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1/2 AK, top 2 on monotone flop, raised.

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02-01-2012 , 04:15 PM

#51

abgtr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 5,855

Quote:

Originally Posted by srslyNotTrolling

If he never semi-bluffs, we'll put him on a set of fours, A4, AK, and flushes.

What flushes are you giving him here? All of them? I don't even know how much that changes anything.

I think him calling with something like KxT

is hopeful.

Quote

02-01-2012 , 04:22 PM

#52

srslyNotTrolling

banned

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 516

Quote:

Originally Posted by eldodo42

I'm not folding here. But I think I'm not shoving, either. When we shove, he gets to play perfectly against us, since he's not far behind when he holds the naked Qs or Js, and he's way ahead when he has a set or flush. Instead, I suggest to call on the flop, and then shove any non-spade turn card (and essentially check/fold on a spade turn card). This has several advantages:
1. We get to fold when a spade hits on the turn, which is great in case villain had a made set or flush already on the flop
2. When he calls our shove on the turn, he's making a mistake, while if he called our flop-shove he wouldn't be making a mistake (assuming his hand is, say, AxJs). In other words, when we see that the turn card is safe, our equity vs his range improved dramatically, and now we like our hand much more and are happy to go all-in and make him pay.

My suggested line also has some disadvantages:
1. If he holds something like AxTs he might fold if we shove the flop (thinking that we might have the Js or Qs), but when we just call we're giving him a free turn card to try to beat us.
2. He might even fold a set if we shove on the flop
3. if he holds the naked Qs, he might fold when we shove the turn, seeing that he does not have enough equity, thus he might avoid making a mistake.
4. if he holds something like QsTx or QsJx or JsTx then he might make a straight on the turn and then if he calls our shove (pretty likely IMO) we get stacked.

I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, so I like the "call flop shove non-spade turn" line, but I'm open to be convinced otherwise.

This doesn't seem like a bad idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superman1

your math above is 100% correct but unfortunately it doesnt match your OP. you said that you raised to $15 and got called by the BB, Button and UTG. right? that looks like $60 to me...anyway it doesnt matter.

Honestly, im shocked by the result. I hope this doesnt make people think fold on the flop was correct because thats just being results oriented.

You're honestly shocked that someone raised a small flush? Not everyone slowplays everything. Especially when it's not the nut flush.

And, in fact, him showing up with that hand probably does make a flop fold correct, not because of the exact results of the hand, but because it tells us a lot about what his range is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eldodo42

If villain has AxQs, he *has* to call our shove, since he'd be risking around 300 to win around 900, and he has odds for this no matter what hand we have (well, unless we already have a made flush, and even then he's getting almost the right odds).

Where did you get 900? He's winning the 200ish out there plus hero's 367 remaining stack = ~567.

Quote

02-01-2012 , 04:27 PM

#53

Superman1

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,556

Quote:

Originally Posted by srslyNotTrolling

This doesn't seem like a bad idea.

You're honestly shocked that someone raised a small flush? Not everyone slowplays everything. Especially when it's not the nut flush.

And, in fact, him showing up with that hand probably does make a flop fold correct, not because of the exact results of the hand, but because it tells us a lot about what his range is.

Where did you get 900? He's winning the 200ish out there plus hero's 367 remaining stack = ~567.

No, i am shocked by the bet sizing of his raise with a small flush.

Quote

02-01-2012 , 04:28 PM

#54

srslyNotTrolling

banned

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 516

Quote:

Originally Posted by abgtr

What flushes are you giving him here? All of them? I don't even know how much that changes anything.

I think him calling with something like KxT

is hopeful.

The ranges are in the pokerstove text box. You have to scroll to the right. For convenience:

The first one I gave him:
44, AK, A4, Q

, Q

, J

, T

, 9

, 8

, 7

, 6

The second one I added:
AxQ

, AxJ

, AxT

, KxQ

, KxJ

, KxT

I would expect most villains to call a shove with the Q

hands, but I would expect many to realize that the J

and especially the T

can be drawing dead to the nut flush causing him to fold some of the few hands we are beating.

Quote

02-01-2012 , 04:29 PM

#55

srslyNotTrolling

banned

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 516

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superman1

No, i am shocked by the bet sizing of his raise with a small flush.

That makes more sense. However, in my $1/$2 experience, I find that people tend to raise small with everything. A normal sized raise just seems too big to them.

Quote

02-01-2012 , 04:32 PM

#56

TAOxEaglex

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 1,583

Seeing this as a minraise is a mistake. It is not a minraise. It is a $100 OMG A WHOLE STACK OF REDS raise.

Quote

02-01-2012 , 04:45 PM

#57

Superman1

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,556

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAOxEaglex

Seeing this as a minraise is a mistake. It is not a minraise. It is a $100 OMG A WHOLE STACK OF REDS raise.

Ok! now this i can get on board with and i didnt really take this into consideration. nice work.

Quote

02-01-2012 , 04:46 PM

#58

Eeyorefora

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 3,137

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAOxEaglex

Seeing this as a minraise is a mistake. It is not a minraise. It is a $100 OMG A WHOLE STACK OF REDS raise.

Right on.
Since hero raised pre,I would see two pair or set as only reason the hand would continue.
Once that raise was called I would be done when the board paired.
This from villians view.
Great for hero,can't understand what villian was thinking unless he put hero darn near on exactly A with Qs

Last edited by Eeyorefora; 02-01-2012 at 04:51 PM.

Quote

02-01-2012 , 05:05 PM

#59

abgtr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 5,855

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAOxEaglex

Seeing this as a minraise is a mistake. It is not a minraise. It is a $100 OMG A WHOLE STACK OF REDS raise.

Doesn't exclude him having K4s, A4s, AxQs though. Nor that our odds at this point in the hand are probably still too sexy to fold to knowing we are probably ahead here more than we aren't.

Quote

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