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Old 08-09-2018, 03:01 AM   #1
momo_uk
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1/2: AK facing 250BB river shove

1/2/4, $660 deep, AsKc facing heat from nitty V who has barely been playing any hands.. one time I saw him donk small/same size ($30-40) 3 streets HU in a SRP on 77TJ8 and fold to a river raise, guy had TT

Hero in CO raises $25 over straddle and 2 limps, BTN calls, V in BB calls, 2 limpers call

Flop ($125): KhQh9c
V donks $35, folds to Hero who calls, BTN folds

Turn ($195): 6d
V bets $100, Hero ??? (calls)

River ($395): 3s
V shoves $500, Hero ???

V confidently picks up and looks at his cards while Hero tanks...

Is turn an exploitative fold? Can we ever Hero call river considering fd missed?
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Old 08-09-2018, 03:51 AM   #2
noshots00
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Re: 1/2: AK facing 250BB river shove

Were sort of at the bottom of our range that gets to this river so ez fold. I've never seen a true nit overnet pot on river with busted draw either.
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Old 08-09-2018, 02:05 PM   #3
LordRiverRat
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Re: 1/2: AK facing 250BB river shove

I would've raised the flop because of his sizing. If he flats, I would then bet the turn and check back the river. Sometimes villain will surprise you with a slow play, but most of the time if you make it $90 or $100 on the flop, villain will come over the top with KQ+ because their biggest nightmare is getting sucked out on and stacked in a big pot.

Now that I think about it, the fact that the pot is already big going into the flop is meaningful. Villains are much less likely to slow play. The other thread I posted about 3 bet bluffing the turn after villain flatted on QJ9ss is actually spew because villains would have less incentive to protect their nutted hands in a tiny limped pot. It's the same logic where sometimes villains give up more than they should in limped pots because "there's not enough money in the pot".

AP, it's unfortunate but maybe this villain (unlike most villains) donks small with his nutted hands on the flop in addition to the usual range of air and weak top pairs. When he donked those three streets and folded river? Did he bet small on the turn and river too? That's a key difference. Turn is close. It's a half pot bet, but it's also a $100 bet which is large for a 1/2 game (was it mandatory straddle?)...I would fold river and feel good about it, especially given villain description. Hero calling at 1/2 will not make money in the long run.
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Old 08-09-2018, 02:25 PM   #4
Hiruba
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Re: 1/2: AK facing 250BB river shove

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Originally Posted by LordRiverRat View Post
I would've raised the flop because of his sizing. If he flats, I would then bet the turn and check back the river. Sometimes villain will surprise you with a slow play, but most of the time if you make it $90 or $100 on the flop, villain will come over the top with KQ+ because their biggest nightmare is getting sucked out on and stacked in a big pot.

Now that I think about it, the fact that the pot is already big going into the flop is meaningful. Villains are much less likely to slow play. The other thread I posted about 3 bet bluffing the turn after villain flatted on QJ9ss is actually spew because villains would have less incentive to protect their nutted hands in a tiny limped pot. It's the same logic where sometimes villains give up more than they should in limped pots because "there's not enough money in the pot".

AP, it's unfortunate but maybe this villain (unlike most villains) donks small with his nutted hands on the flop in addition to the usual range of air and weak top pairs. When he donked those three streets and folded river? Did he bet small on the turn and river too? That's a key difference. Turn is close. It's a half pot bet, but it's also a $100 bet which is large for a 1/2 game (was it mandatory straddle?)...I would fold river and feel good about it, especially given villain description. Hero calling at 1/2 will not make money in the long run.
What do we do if v 3bets jam over flop raise? I suppose we fold? Genuine question. I tend to default to flatting donk bets in these spots but I see merits of raising.

I agree turn's a call and and river is a fold to general 1/2 population.
If v is capable of turning pair + SD hands then I'd contemplate a call. Even then it's close. I suppose this also means we should make sure some of our nutted hands get to the river this way. Again against described nitty V's line and sizing on river this is kind of a trivial fold imo.
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Old 08-09-2018, 02:29 PM   #5
ibelieveyouoweme$80k
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Re: 1/2: AK facing 250BB river shove

Turn is a call. River is a fold.

Iím guessing he showed QQ?


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Old 08-09-2018, 02:32 PM   #6
LordRiverRat
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Re: 1/2: AK facing 250BB river shove

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Originally Posted by Hiruba View Post
What do we do if v 3bets jam over flop raise? I suppose we fold?
Yes
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Old 08-09-2018, 02:37 PM   #7
whatnow88
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Re: 1/2: AK facing 250BB river shove

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Originally Posted by ibelieveyouoweme$80k View Post
Turn is a call. River is a fold.

Iím guessing he showed QQ?


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+1
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Old 08-09-2018, 02:48 PM   #8
DrChesspain
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Re: 1/2: AK facing 250BB river shove

Seems like a super easy river fold. If nitty Villain bluffed us off the river, then good for him.
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Old 08-09-2018, 06:17 PM   #9
momo_uk
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Re: 1/2: AK facing 250BB river shove

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Originally Posted by LordRiverRat View Post
Did he bet small on the turn and river too? That's a key difference. Turn is close. It's a half pot bet, but it's also a $100 bet which is large for a 1/2 game (was it mandatory straddle?)...I would fold river and feel good about it, especially given villain description. Hero calling at 1/2 will not make money in the long run.

Yes, he donked like $25/$30/$40 over three streets in the precious hand, which is why my alarm bells went off when he went from $35 OTF to $100 OTT in this hand. Would KJ or a FD ever do this?

And no it wasnít a mandatory straddle.
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Old 08-09-2018, 06:18 PM   #10
momo_uk
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1/2: AK facing 250BB river shove

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibelieveyouoweme$80k View Post
Turn is a call. River is a fold.

Iím guessing he showed QQ?


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He didnít show but later in the session, he donkbet twice in a similar spot on a JTx board into me when I was PFR with KT, I folded turn and asked him if he had the same hand the last time and he smiled and said yeah!
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Old 08-09-2018, 11:28 PM   #11
LordRiverRat
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Re: 1/2: AK facing 250BB river shove

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Originally Posted by momo_uk View Post
Yes, he donked like $25/$30/$40 over three streets in the precious hand, which is why my alarm bells went off when he went from $35 OTF to $100 OTT in this hand. Would KJ or a FD ever do this?

And no it wasnít a mandatory straddle.
Then it might even be OK to fold the turn. A $100 bet even in a straddled pot at 1/2 usually means business. Like Ed Miller said, big money talks in these low limit games.
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