10 handed

UTG Straddle $5
UTG+1 Calls
Hero UTG+3 (~$650) Raises to $25 AcAh
HJ+1 (~$250) Calls
CO (~350) Calls
UTG (~$1000) Calls

Pot $103 after rake

Jd9d9h

UTG Checks
Hero ?

UTG is a total monkey, loves to bluff with his missed draws, usually just calls with draws, very loose pre and sticky post flop, seen calling cbets 3 ways with K2 on T72r
HJ+1 is loose pre, however for $25 not super loose, probably all pairs and suited connecting hands and some decent broadways, doesnt get too out of line
CO has been pretty straightforward, probably similar range to HJ+1, havent seen many showdowns
Hero somewhat loose pre, usually raising, cbetting some but also giving up/checking back some

Thoughts going into flop were I was stacking off on most flops vs everyone but UTG with a spr around 3

$90

With this action and this flop, Im stacking off against any or all of them. If someone called a 12.5BB raise with a 9 in his hand so be it. Im only worried about JJ and again, if he has it, he has it.

I bet $80

Bet $80 and move in if somebody raises. If there are multiple shoves behind then you can think about folding. With an SPR just over 6 against the deepest stack and shorter against the other two your committed against any single opponent.

Not happy if it's HJ+1 or CO because hero is probably less then 50/50 to win if they move in but their stacks are too short to fold. Even a small chance they have a draw justifies getting it in.

If you are sure that UTG is never making a move with a draw or raising with JX or a pair then you could fold if he shoves but I probably move in. Even given your description I think his raising is more likely a strong draw then anything and with your SPR you can't fold to a likely draw. $80 is sized to setup UTG up for $160 on turn and a shove on the river.

With read on UTG I'm raising even bigger preflop.

On flop we do face some 9X in each of our opponents' ranges but it is only a small %

We can get value from AJ KJ QJ (KK discounted but not impossible) QQ TT QTs T8s AXdd and a load of stupid offsuit straight draws for UTG.

Diamonds, K, Q, J, 8 are all going to be a bit unpleasant on the turn.

I'd bet $90 and see what happens...

Pre-flop: Fine.

Flop: Bet 80-85. If re-raised, you have to go on reads and base it on opponents history; as if you should call, fold, re-raise/shove.

Turn: There is no possible way to know what you should do on the turn. There is no set-plan from the flop. There are 5 opponents, each one with his/her own idiosyncracies and combining that with all sorts of turn cards and what people do on the flop after your bet. No way to know, 100% re-evaluation after you're flop bet.

River: Same thing.



Pre-flop is fine, Flop should be a health bet; after that given current info, no one-size-fits-all set-plan can be constructed really.

$70

L/r pre.

Pot it.

I'm not a big l/r guy but T handed straddled with our reads I have no problem here with that play.

Yeah l/rr is good here, don't know why I didn't consider it...

MP l/r causes villains to go bonkers from my observation.

l/rr is something i should consider, i never open limp and rarely limp behind but im sure there are spots where it would be good


Pot $103 after rake

Jd9d9h

UTG Checks
Hero Checks
HJ+1 Checks
CO Bets $25
UTG Raises to $100
Hero ?


I decided to go for the x/r here for a few reasons:

1. I felt like this would get checked through maybe 5% of the time, although a small sample size I remember CO betting when checked to almost always if not always.
2. On this flop texture I will and should be giving up a lot so a bet by me would look very strong. I'm not sure if this is optimal and could certainly be wrong about all/some of this but... I'd like to be cbetting more of a polarized range so basically hands that will happily get the money in when raised like 9x, JJ, and strong draws, or will happily fold when raised, like KQo, KTs with no fd, TT? AK?. And I'll be check raising some medium strength hands/draws such as QQ-AA, QJ+?, QT, weaker fds. I'm not sure if or what I would be x/calling with the spr so low so I don't think I have to worry about that?
3. If someone did have QJ-AJ here I felt like a x/r by me would be easier to call than calling me down as a x/r looks a lot like a semibluff, although again I could be wrong here.
4. I wasn't excited about bet/calling or bet/folding AA here.

The CO is betting here super wide, I'd say any pair for protection or any sort of draw, maybe even hands like AQ or 87s no fd just because. The UTG raise has me pretty scared. He's certainly calling with hands like 98o pre so he has a lot of 9x hands, but he also has a lot of air and draws too so idk. Usually when I've seen him raise he has had it and tends to just call with draws and weak/medium strength made hands, but it certainly doesn't mean he cant have air/draws here, he is a monkey and does get caught bluffing quite a bit. I don't really like any of my options here and was wishing I had just cbet haha.

Fold.

A bet and raise that isn't a shove is the worst possible action. One of the big problems with checking this sort of flop is exactly this sort of situation. Where there is action after but it gives you no real idea where you stand and you are stuck between shove and fold with little information. If you fold your going to be folding to a bluff and a draw sometimes, if you shove your going to shove into JJ/9X sometimes.

UTG is just deep enough I'm willing to fold but since he is the one that can also be on a spewy bluff I'm not folding every time. I would lean fold but I'm making a read and going with it.

Math and Reads.

Reads:
Strength is strength, if a given villain(s) wouldn't raise without trips or better you need to fold.

If you're in unknown territory, and don't truly know enough about Villain to make a decisive read you need to math it.

5 multi-way, 9s smash ranges, SMASH calling ranges. So gauging interest by two if not more players you have to figure out combos, Jx, JJ, 9x, flushdraws, straighdraws, straightflushdraws. And just figure out if AA has equity to continue given ranges of opponents that are showing interest. Probably not, but that might MUTB. Cause two villians could easily think JQ,JK,JT is worth going, while another has a draw that's ready to play it aggressively.

Outside of reads folding, calling, and raising are all justified. You need reads for this hand. If no reads, you're so deep it's even more tough. If you raise, and they raise/shove over top, godd*** I'd feel sick, but how can you fold at that point, you can't.
This deep, I will say if you call and CO re-raises you can fold and be very happy. Ofc, if he doesn't you just let draws in cheap. The hand is paradoxical, and uncertain without reads.


Old standard, combos dictate you have equity to continue. But action dictates combos that are being played are beating you and shredding your equity. It's a sick spot, made sick because your deep, and stays sick because no reads.

Given you're Villain's profiles I'd say fold. The hands that beat you are within their ranges, and the action seems to be divergent from their typical play-style. Divergence usually mean Nuts or Bluff. Because multi-way, Nuts.

Go home. Fold.


Follow Up: Based on all data-points UTG V is raising with Jx or 9x, not draws. CO prob only bets when last to act with OESFD or Jx, 9x.

I'm folding.

Yes UTG is loose and bluffy but he also has the most 9X in his range in an absolute sense even if not necessarily relative to the whole of his range. Therefore if you run this hand a load of times UTG is going to be thd one with 9X most often.

The thing that worries me most is two players have shown enough interest to play aggressively at this flop so our chances of facing a 9 are now much higher than otherwise.

Too multiway to X this flop. All kind of goofiness can take place and we will be completely blind.

25 into 100 by c/o can be inducing all kinds of nonsense here. Idk honestly but I'm thinking c/o has one pair or draw a fair amount or lol boat I guess. Utg can have anything including trips. Folding would be fine. We are folding the best hand a lot but our equity is likely running close tbh. I didn't crunch any ranges though.

Other option is click it back to reclaim this shyt show (plan was to X/r) but have to fold to a shove by utg IMO.

I dont like the check on the flop at all, now you have no idea where you are and just have to fold.

Sounds like no one will be semibluff raising flop in a protected pot, go ahead and bet 1/3 pot to preserves some equity on the cheap and get some visibility on things. JJ9s would be a bit more concerning 4-handed, though against these guys I prob do the same.

alright so I folded, btn shoved and utg folded for what its worth

also wondering what you guys thought about my ranges on the flop, should i be x/raising anything here? x/calling anything? or with it being 4 way should i just bet or x/f everything here? if this were online i would probably have 4 ranges but live maybe i should just have 2 or 3 with no x/r. I've been finding that going for x/r with an spr around 2-3 doesn't work very well, people usually bet like 1/4 pot so I cant really jam.

Could probably get away with ck/raising all K9 and A9.