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1/2 AA bad flop? Getting raised. 1/2 AA bad flop? Getting raised.

06-03-2015 , 10:05 PM
quick line check folks.

Hero (250) Tight image. Pretty aggressive. Nothing special.
V (covers) Loose pre, likes to see the flop. He did 3bet JJ pre to my early position open and continue to barrel Q 7 4 rainbow when checked to. He also bet the turn for his last 40 bucks when the meaning less 3 hit. I had KK and scooped. This was really the only hand I saw where he "got out of line" in like 2 hrs.

Other history is me taking down a pot where I had KQ and raised his bet of 15 to 50 on a Q J 7 hh board.

Hero raise UTG w AA, V call on in CO.

Flop (25)

K T T rainbow. Hero bet 20, V raise to 55, Hero call.

Turn ( 130)

K T T 6 rainbow. Hero check. V snap bet 100. Hero fold.

*Special note, there was a 200 dollar promo going on and if I hit the A on turn I would almost assuredly win, can add that into implied odds for flop call fwiw.

Thanks everyone
1/2 AA bad flop? Getting raised. Quote
06-03-2015 , 10:22 PM
I would probably call down given your read
1/2 AA bad flop? Getting raised. Quote
06-03-2015 , 10:39 PM
We only made it ten to go with AA?

We should have made it 15 or 20.

We might have limp/reraised UTG given the read on Villain.

As played, he could well have a K.
1/2 AA bad flop? Getting raised. Quote
06-03-2015 , 10:49 PM
meh. pretty nitty fold. I don't like the fold after calling the raise on the flop.

I hope you didn't show, because now you have a target on your back.
1/2 AA bad flop? Getting raised. Quote
06-03-2015 , 11:01 PM
What is your range on V as played? If he's loose pre, I would have him preflop on: QQ-21, AK, KQ, KJ, KT, K9-K2s, QJs-54s, maybe suited one/two gappers and unsuited connectors down to 98o.

After he raises the flop, his range narrows considerably to Kx (esp KQ, KJ), and any hand with a T, or air. He doesn't have KK because he likely would've 3bet PF. He doesn't have KT because he would've just called and let you lead out on the turn.

I think a K is more likely than a T and that you were probably ahead.
1/2 AA bad flop? Getting raised. Quote
06-04-2015 , 12:20 AM
easy fold
1/2 AA bad flop? Getting raised. Quote
06-04-2015 , 12:30 AM
I am somewhat torn here. My gut says raises by randoms at 1/2 should be treated as gospel. After he raises on the turn, I think the only things you can put him on are AK or TX hands. So the question becomes how many TX hands he would call our preflop raise with, and whether he would 3 bet pre with AK.

Let's assume he plays T9s and better (ATs, KTs, QTs, JTs, T9s), TT, and ATo. Then we'll tack on all AK hands, and all KQ hands (because he is loose after all. We MIGHT want to include KJ, but does he raise with that? I'm guessing he doesn't)

So here are out pokerstove ranges: Hero (AA), Villain (TT,AKs,ATs,KQs,KTs,QTs,JTs,T9s,AKo,KQo).

Flop for the purposes of pokerstove + rainbow: Kc Td Th 6s

Based on those inputs, Stove says we are 65-35 ahead! Great news! However, you need to seriously ask yourself if you think this guy raises on the flop with KQ, or only a hand with a ten or AK. If you remove the KQ hands, suddenly we are 40-60 dogs. Frankly even that is a LOT higher than I expected it to be, based on the number of combos containing a 10. This is also largely on whether or not you think he raises or flats with AK.

If he has shown that he would 3bet with AK, and in this case he doesn't, we could remove AK from the spread, and leave only KQ and the various 10 combos. That makes us ahead 56-44. If we don't think he raises with KQ, AND we think he 3bets AK, that means the only thing he is raising the flop with is hands containing a ten. That drops our range to ATs-T9s,ATo. Against that range we are 3.8% likely to win. (dat 2-outer)

So ask yourself these questions:

1) Does he 3bet pre with AK?

2) Does he raise the flop with a non-TPTK king?

Those will tell you where you stand.
1/2 AA bad flop? Getting raised. Quote
06-04-2015 , 03:10 PM
The insta-bet of $100 is also a sign of weakness. He could have QJ, Q9, J9 and be barreling. If he did have T+, Id expect a little Hollywood from a random 1/2 player. (QJ) seems like a really possible hand here.
1/2 AA bad flop? Getting raised. Quote
06-04-2015 , 03:19 PM
Since we can't see the Villan's cards, all we have to go on is the two hands that you included. Both of them are interesting and relevant.

What do you take from hand 1, what do you take from hand 2?

What have you learned about him? What has he learned about you?
1/2 AA bad flop? Getting raised. Quote
06-04-2015 , 04:40 PM
You really don't want to call the flop and then fold the turn. When you called the flop bet, did you have a plan? Hopefully you weren't thinking, "I'll call. c/f, c/f, and hope to get a free showdown". You've got to anticipate a turn bet, in this case after a harmless card that changes nothing except potentially improving your odds if V has QJ.

Agree w/others that you are usually facing a Kx.
1/2 AA bad flop? Getting raised. Quote
06-04-2015 , 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by au4all
Since we can't see the Villan's cards, all we have to go on is the two hands that you included. Both of them are interesting and relevant.

What do you take from hand 1, what do you take from hand 2?

What have you learned about him? What has he learned about you?
Villain has seen hero x/c with an over-pair on a dry board and he has seen hero raise his flop bet on a wet board (and folded presumably?).

We learn villain can stack off with pp lower than top pair in a 3bet pot and that he 3bets JJ at least some of the time. We can extrapolate that he sometimes 3bets AK and has learned that we are quite tight from EP and like to let him bet his stack at us while holding an overpair.

If villain is observant and capable of adjusting then I would say he is more likely than normal to have a T than a K when he bets the turn after we call his flop raise. He can think we perceive him to be capable of stacking off weak and attempt to call him down with AK or AA. That's a great spot to keep betting with trips and get his stack back.

I think most players remember getting stacked so I expect he probably has adjusted his play accordingly.

Good fold lMO
1/2 AA bad flop? Getting raised. Quote

      
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