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Old 10-11-2017, 11:39 PM   #26
momo_uk
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Re: 1/2: AA, $700 deep vs tighty on KQT flop

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Originally Posted by sai1b0ats View Post
He's being offered 385 to win 1060 (or to win 340 if chopping). If you think he's got a decent likelihood of fold-pre holding AK, then river could be a check back AP. He's not thinking about we have, he's thinking **** I might be beat here, but I can't fold this hand, too much in the middle.

Exactly.

I checked back river like an idiot. Think I could have bet $150 and got crying-called for sure.

V obv had AKo.
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:20 AM   #27
HawkesDave
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Re: 1/2: AA, $700 deep vs tighty on KQT flop

I think you have a better chance of getting $150-200 of value by AK here by betting only the river than you do in getting anything more than that $100 by betting $100 or $150 more on the river as played. Calling the $100 on the turn was a borderline play by a competent player and a bad one by a good player. I think many of us would have folded to any bet on the turn if we were V. To get another $150 out of them on a brick river means he's just not good at all. If that's the read you got on V, go for it.

Against most competent players I'm getting more value with a $150-200 river bet after it checks twice than I am from betting the turn with the tippy top of my range against a 3b/flatted 4b. KQT is just about the worst flop imaginable in a 1/2 game when you have AK vs. a 4b and they flat you on the flop. To be OOP on top of that? Just an awful place to be.
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:34 AM   #28
momo_uk
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1/2: AA, $700 deep vs tighty on KQT flop

^ Yeah agreed, I just felt he wasn’t good enough to avoid getting sucked in to $100-150 bets in a huge pot with TPTK.

It’s like I’m so sure I have the best hand on turn/river because he’s never checking a set twice EVER.
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:45 AM   #29
SwolyswoND
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Re: 1/2: AA, $700 deep vs tighty on KQT flop

He wasn't going to call you. Good check back. Don't be results-oriented that he had AK. You make decisions against his range, not his hand. Betting this river would be terrible against his range.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:12 AM   #30
HawkesDave
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Re: 1/2: AA, $700 deep vs tighty on KQT flop

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He wasn't going to call you. Good check back. Don't be results-oriented that he had AK. You make decisions against his range, not his hand. Betting this river would be terrible against his range.
I agree with this. People are discounting this hand from V's perspective.

If V had come here and posted this hand, from his perspective as holding AK, the entire board would be mostly encouraging him to fold to the turn bet.

Had he check/called the turn bet with AK, and checked again and the river was bet, he would get told to fold by 100% of posters here.

I could a nitty V donking JJ on this flop and then slowing down to the uncapped 4bettor's range on future streets. There's nearly as many combos of QQ and KK as there is of AK. No reason to stack himself off with JJ against a flop that hit his opponent's range even better than his.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:36 AM   #31
momo_uk
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1/2: AA, $700 deep vs tighty on KQT flop

^ Are you ever donking this flop with JJ? It makes no sense.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:39 AM   #32
cicakman
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Re: 1/2: AA, $700 deep vs tighty on KQT flop

These are all reasons turn is better as a check
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:54 AM   #33
HawkesDave
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Re: 1/2: AA, $700 deep vs tighty on KQT flop

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^ Are you ever donking this flop with JJ? It makes no sense.
Always makes more sense to donk a set than it does TPTK.
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Old 10-12-2017, 11:22 AM   #34
momo_uk
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Re: 1/2: AA, $700 deep vs tighty on KQT flop

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Always makes more sense to donk a set than it does TPTK.

JJ is an OESD.
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Old 10-12-2017, 11:35 AM   #35
HawkesDave
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Re: 1/2: AA, $700 deep vs tighty on KQT flop

Sorry, you're right, I meant TT and not JJ in those two posts. Referring to bottom set.
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Old 10-12-2017, 11:38 AM   #36
momo_uk
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Re: 1/2: AA, $700 deep vs tighty on KQT flop

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Sorry, you're right, I meant TT and not JJ in those two posts. Referring to bottom set.

Yeah, it’s the main hand I was afraid of. It’s possible he pot controls with that.
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:53 PM   #37
Man of Means
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Re: 1/2: AA, $700 deep vs tighty on KQT flop

Villain's dumb flop donk allowed hero to conceal the strength of his hand somewhat. Although the 4-bet range is tight, it includes JJ and maybe AQs. I'm posting post-results, but was on board with the 1/3-1/2pot river bet.
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:18 PM   #38
chop$
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Re: 1/2: AA, $700 deep vs tighty on KQT flop

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^ Are you ever donking this flop with JJ? It makes no sense.
Against a 4-bet I don't think it makes much sense with AK either.
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