Previous table just broke so not a lot of information on this table. My new neighbor kindly informed me that Seat 1 had 1.4K$ not too long ago and is currently in the process of dumping it all.

I misread the preflop action during the hand so i will recount it as i thought it happened.

MP Opens 10$
BTN Hero (500$) 3! to 30$ with AA
SB Whale (700$) Calls
BB Mid 30s asian with ear buds (300$) Makes it 105$
MP Folds
Hero?

Obviously I'm strongly considering flatting here to let SB come in. Some arguments against it at this point is that we have no read on his post flop tendencies. We also pretty much have a guaranteed profitable shove vs BB who is more likely not folding. Lastly, BB might find some folds post flop. Less variance.

Arguments for flatting are that we might get a lot of chips from SB if he flops one pair or any kind of draws. And with 300$ in the pot, the hand wouldn't be too hard to play with that low of an SPR. Basically I think it's profitable but higher variance.

So with no read other than the fact that Vilain is very wide, do you have a strong opinion on always flatting here? If so I'd love to hear it.

I think I'm pushing here.

Fish might be on a mad streak (as your neighbour kindly told you) and call.
Also I don't want 3way OTF with flatting..

Flat

Why if I may ask

Keep fish in

Yes I get that but isn't it a bit too risky of a play to see the flop in three way?

I'm wondering, I'm a bit newbie (and nitty).

I'm probably playing tricky just flatting, to GII OTF since we are in position against the donkey and BB with 2/3 a pot sized bet left(assuming sb calls). Don't think anybody would argue with a shove pre after BB puts in 35% of his stack.

5 betting here is really really bad. Call all day.

Why is shoving so bad in this spot? If you shove and everyone folds. You get $145, if you shove and bb calls then you're 80% to get $340, if you just call and both sb and bb call youre only 60% to win the pot. Is the potential of an added $75 due to the possibility of the sb calling that enticing? It has to be worth the 20% drop in equity and the possibility of the flop being dry and both players folding to your bet. Just looking for someone to explain they're answer a little more.

you are 60% if they see all 5 cards. They won't (they will only see 3) so your math is wrong. The pot will be much bigger if they want to see all 5 cards and you will be 60% to take down a huge pot if they both call the all in which will be +ev in the long run.

Also you can't just assume you are 60%. They may very well both have AK or AQ or they could both have KK.

You can easily range the asian guy on AK / KK / AA / maybe QQ since he cold 4bet and this is live poker so if you see a flop you know what cards to be scared of.

We also have the BTN and will act last so that's good too. If we were OOP I could see just getting it in pre flop but since we have that BTN we are golden. Only thing we have to worry about is the whale who could literally have a very wide range but it's still worth just calling since you are putting 20% of your stack in pre flop - you should be able to bet/call any flop that isn't Kxx

It's the potential to get SB's entire stack!

I think the biggest question is actually BB.

He might almost always stack off pre-flop but fold on some flops. When, for example, he holds AK, you block 2 of his "outs." On the other hand, when he has KK, you also block 2 scare cards, which is good. Not to say that's his entire range, but given that it's a cold 4-bet pre, it could well be close. Finally, you have to consider how often - and it's not always - the whale over calls pre. And when he does over call, how often does he really make a hand that gives you a lot of value post? Obviously the worst possible case is whale folds pre and BB gives up on the flop. But I think that's a very unlikely outcome.

That all said, I think position is key. I love that you'll have position post-flop on the 4-better.

So yes, flat pre imo.

Grunch

I'm flatting in order to let the SB make another mistake by calling.

We have an SPR of 1 against the BB if the whale calls and an SPR of less than 2 against the whale. Absent a wacky flop we should look to GII on the flop.

I also feel like flatting is the best play but for one reason or another I didn't want the variance at the time, I think I'm just a bit of rusty on my deeper stack game since this game plays pretty shallow most of the time.

I shoved, BB called, showed my hand on the river and he mucked.

One of the key point I think that makes this even more of a call is the size of 4bet, had the action been different and the raise smaller, say 70-80$ do your action change?

I think one of the biggest leaks low stakes players make is losing value on their value hands. 5 bet in position with AA is really bad in this spot. With spr so low, it's not that hard to play it OTF. I think flatting is by far the best play.

yes this the only downside if the whale doesn't call and BB has AK and just check folds flop.

It is very hard for him to have AK since you hold AA. He has a smaller pocket pair a ton of times here and he could even have a hand as weak as TT if hero has been 3betting light.

Flatting, and betting 1/3 pot when checked to

Well it worked out, the BB called your shove. I'd say it's the right play.

Don't get too fancy thinking a 5 bet will scare them. This is 1/2 live, donks will call all ins for much worse.

He mucked so you couldn't see, I'm ranging KK, QQ, JJ, AK, even 10/10 or AQ.

Remember, no one folds. I get dudes shoving all in with crap when I 3 bet them.

Grunch:

I'm loving this spot because flatting means whale is almost always calling, and we are getting it in with BB on flop anyway. His 4b is like almost always KK, and maybe like 30% all of AA, AK, QQ, readless.

Agree with your analysis DC, to top it off, SB did say he was going to call tbe 105$ so we sort of have proof.

And hey, since I have you here...what does Grunch means? I see it in every other thread.

Grunch = "Here's my analysis without looking at anybody's responses or the results of the hand."

Arrin.

Q: What is Whale calling 105 but folding to 500 with?

A: Nothing.

I disagree.
I think he is calling 3 bet with most of his range whereas he's folding everything except top of his range as played.
I've played with many whales at this limit and they don't think about stack sizes a whole lot or spr.
They just look at the bet they called and see "oh it's only 75 more and 3 way pot" and would call with any suited connectors or pp in case they smash the flop.

What mandu said is correct. Of course SB folded to my jam. This type of player will call big bets preflop but not shoves for over 100bb

Well if you have that read, that changes things a bit.