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1/2 A8s against a LAGgy 1/2 A8s against a LAGgy

11-08-2016 , 06:21 PM
Hero (200) 60 year old white male, probably seen as ABC player.

V1 (350) 35ish Latino Male. I have played with him before, raises with wide ranges, not afraid to barrel all the way to the river with TPWK or 2nd Pair. Just arrived at table today, So far, only seen one hand at showdown. He raised three limpers from the MP wth QTo, barreled all the way to the river. SB c/c him and they split the pot on a made straight on the river and he berated the SB for calling to the river.

V2 (200) Middle aged WM. very quiet, doesn't play many hands, usually limps in. Been playing about 30 min at the table, has yet to make it to showdown.

OTTH:

two limps to V1 in the HJ and he raises to $12
V2 in Cut off calls
Hero A8 on button calls
all others fold

Pot: $43

Flop: 223

V1 bets $30
V2 calls
Hero calls (should I have raised here? Please advise, I am trying to learn to be more agressive),

Pot: $133

Turn: A

V1 bets $100

V2 takes a long time, sighs and folds

Hero??
1/2 A8s against a LAGgy Quote
11-08-2016 , 06:59 PM
I call the $100-strictly due to his image of barreling...
If I think he has a better kicker (a tight player) I fold and save my hundred for a better spot.
If I miss the flush on the river and he bets I fold (I don't see a bet less than all-in)
If I hit the flush obviously shove or call the all-in.

I think a flop raise looks exactly what it is on that board, what would you be repping? 88-10's? It appears V2 has a flush draw as well, keep him in with a call, he may have 2 of your outs, more reason to fold turn possibly.
1/2 A8s against a LAGgy Quote
11-08-2016 , 07:15 PM
Can't call turn and fold river; also we can't fold turn vs. this villain.
1/2 A8s against a LAGgy Quote
11-08-2016 , 07:42 PM
I probably shove flop. When the action gets to you and you put your $30, there's 133 in the pot and you have $158 behind, so a bit more than a PSB which in my mind is great sizing for fold equity.

V1 basically never has a 2 or 33 here, so his calling range is basically 88+, Broadway club draws, and maybe A2s (if he even opens that pre). He can fold a ton of ace high that is ahead of you, and also may fold some overpairs. If he calls with 88+, Broadway club draws and all combos of A2s, you have 45.5% equity against his calling range, and are only putting about 42% of the money in, so making a +EV play even without fold equity.

V2's range is a little wider, he can have basically all pocket pairs less than QQ (assuming QQ-AA 3-bet) and A2s in his calling range, though he also has more random club draws. He also is more likely to have weak overpairs though, so may be more likely to fold. If V1 calls with all pocket pairs, Broadway and a few other clubs draws and A2s, you again have about 48% equity and aren't making a mistake. If somehow both V's call with these ranges, you're still getting odds to bink your ace or a flush.

Basically this in my mind is the perfect semi-bluff spot on the flop. Low flop makes it very hard for anyone to have better than an overpair (V1 because he raised pre, V2 because he flatted flop), you have a nutted draw against an overpair plus additional outs to hit your ace, PFR likes to barrel, stack size is such that you still have FE but don't really hate getting called, and as the last caller, OTB, you're most likely to show up here with a random 2.

Last edited by MIB211; 11-08-2016 at 08:08 PM.
1/2 A8s against a LAGgy Quote
11-08-2016 , 08:10 PM
I have nearly zero IP flop raises against this type of player.

Here I like shove turn given he really has no hands that bet-f now that wouldn't just ck-f riv should you just call. However there are some hands that he would bet-c now that could ck-f riv (FDs, some bluff catchers).

If you're behind, you still have plently of equity against all but the very tip top of an extremely weak turn betting range, so jam for value. If you have to, just bink a deuce otr and watch the fireworks when he shows you 45.
1/2 A8s against a LAGgy Quote
11-08-2016 , 09:41 PM
You could raise flop when it gets to you - there's $100 in the pot, you have $188 left and you should have decent pot equity if called.

The turn bet might be treated more seriously since villain is barreling out of position against two opponents. Has he barreled indiscriminately in prior pots, or does he pick his spots? Still, your hand is just too strong at that point to fold against villain as described. You have, what, $50 left if you call? Why not shove all-in now?
1/2 A8s against a LAGgy Quote
11-09-2016 , 03:00 AM
If you're gonna raise, I would raise preflop. Against a LAG and a weak player in the pot, you could definitely squeeze at a high success rate. Something like 40$ would do. The idea is that you can either take the pot down preflop (which is great with A8cc) or play IP with a hand that flops well. Choose these spots carefully though. I would probably put 50-55$ on this flop. The problem with squeezing though is if you miss. I would probably only fire dry flops and check back the rest (also i would have to judge if my opponent likes to fold to cbets). Ex: K72, Q53, J73, etc.

Raising the flop to GII is also an option too. Something like 75$ imo. Now if he calls your raise, you are now the aggressor and have the additional option of checking the turn if he checks, or go all in if he bets.

AP, OTT, now you are left with a tough decision. You have no "control" of the hand. I would probably go all in though because of the player type you described. If he had an ace, I feel like he would bet less (maybe 75-80$). All I'm sayin is my money would be lost and I would be rebuyin 200$ to do battle.

Last edited by Livin'OnCloud9; 11-09-2016 at 03:05 AM.
1/2 A8s against a LAGgy Quote
11-10-2016 , 06:05 PM
^^^^These types of V's don't fold enough to 3bets to make 3betting preflop a profitable play. Our hand will be in horrible shape for all flops that do not flop an Ace or a flush draw, and this type of V is likely to stack off with any overpair, and possibly with middle pairs like 77-TT. It's pretty much the worst candidate to try and barrel off of a hand.
1/2 A8s against a LAGgy Quote
11-11-2016 , 01:23 PM
I probably raise/shove flop.

With this stack, I definitely shove turn against this villain.
1/2 A8s against a LAGgy Quote
11-11-2016 , 02:32 PM
Fold pre? Not deep enough.
A raise to $12 with $200 eff gives you poor odds to be drawing to a flush, and V2 is a tightish player, so you've got some negative implied odds with your A vs him.

If you had fold equity against V1 I'd 3bet to $40 and take control, but it sounds like he isn't the right target for this.

I don't hate a shove on the flop.

As played, I'm shipping the turn 100% and feel good about it.
1/2 A8s against a LAGgy Quote
11-11-2016 , 03:34 PM
You give a lot of information on V1 and then say nothing about how he might respond to raises/aggression. That is huge for understanding what to do on the flop.

Other thoughts:

- I can let this go pre once V2 calls, his range is crushing your ace

- I think turn is a commitment decision and I'd just stick it in with only ~58 behind, I'm never flatting.
1/2 A8s against a LAGgy Quote
11-11-2016 , 05:07 PM
Flop is a pretty standard over call as played. You have position and lots of equity.

If you're looking to amp up the aggression, then preflop in this situation is the street to do it. You have an aggressive player raising over 2 limps with what you've actually seen to be a wide range and just getting called by the CO, who seems weak/tight possibly given your limited info. SQUEEZE!

$40-$45/fold pre imo
1/2 A8s against a LAGgy Quote
11-11-2016 , 05:17 PM
I'm replying without looking at other replies.
I would say the flop is more complicated because you have no way to know where V2 is. On the turn, you are likely best and can just shove the rest of it.
1/2 A8s against a LAGgy Quote

      
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