I don't ever post in strat forums because I generally just play for fun. But this hand really got to me and several people told me I should not have folded. Last night, playing in the casino I work in.

1/2 nl Hero OTB has $97. UTG straddle to $4. I look down and find 88. 4 people ahead of me have called the $4. I limp in. BB calls. UTG raises to $16. Again 4 callers in front of me, so I call too. BB shoves for around $110. 3 more all in players in front of me (all with $100 or so in chips).

I tank for a moment and decide to fold. I figure at least one of them has a bigger pair, if not 2 of them.

Was this the right play, or am I supposed to call here?

Beat: Flop set, turn quads, steamed for like an hour because I pissed away a $450 pot.

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You had two chances to shove and win the pot outright. With your stack size of 50BB, I shove pre-flop and collect the dead money out there. When UTG raises his straddle, I assume he has a wider than normal range and if he seems to be aggressive I don't mind a re-shove. As played, it's a fold since BB l/rr an UTG 4x raise and the best outcome here is that you are flipping.

Raise pre.

Dont EVER limp behind on the button.

As played, isn't this why you're playing short? So you can find spots like this to gii? If you actually want to play poker, you should top up.

Also, you cant evaluate your play based on cards that later come that would've improved your hand. It doesn't matter that you would've flopped blah blah... As Sklansky/Malmoth said in TOP, a poker play is evaluated as whether you would've made the same move with perfect knowledge, meaning "would you make the same move if you knew what everybody had?" So if BB had JJ, you were dead to two outs and made a wise, disciplined lay down. It doesn't matter you would've rivered quads.

I know this part. I just included the beat part because I wouldn't have thought twice about the hand if it had not happened.

I'm mostly trying to figure out what the right play is regardless of the results. I'm starting to understand that I should have raised the straddle and/or shoved the utg raise. At this point, I'm trying to figure out if I should fold or call as played.

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Raise limpers. AP calling and expecting to have the best hand some small % of the time, and hit a set some of the time too.

Against 4 other AI players, 88 is a dog.
Take a look at poker stove and give the other 4 players a range.
The odds of you winning this hand without improving sucks.
The odds of you improving is equally bad.

Yeah, it doesn't matter how the board runs out you have to make the right decision preflop. If you are going to tilt after a hand like this, look away from the board after you fold. Of course, you are then going to miss information for future use.

Also, top up. Don't play so short.

The bolded is generally OK, but ... nothing is ever NEVER in poker. If I had a hand like 22-55/66, I'd think limping behind on the button when you are going to get multiple callers and have to fold a lot of flops is the right move.

Los Angeles: capped buy ins.

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Oh, $100 max? Sorry. I can't imagine playing that structure regularly.

If you're not that serious and you're mostly just playing for fun then I don't think buy-in amounts matter that much.

This changes everything.

Normally the situation you describe is a fold for a middle PP.

But in those small capped games you have to take advantage of it.

If I had to buy in for $100, I'd likely overlimp 88 on the button. There's a decent chance that we are going to go 7+ ways to the flop getting almost correct direct odds to set mine here. After the straddle raises it up pre flop, and gets a few callers I'd shove it in.

It's a big high variance, but the only person we expect to ever be behind is UTG who might have a bigger over pair, but it's sitll unlikely given his small raise sizing. The only hand that I can ever see any of the limp callers having that is ahead of us pre flop is 99 maaaaaaybe TT. Everything else raises at some point.

When we shove we can expect to get 1-2 callers total, and we are doing fine against their range esp with all the dead money in the pot. We are not going to win the pot more than 50% of the time, don't get me wrong, but we can certainly win the pot more than 33% of the time, which is more than we need.

So, limp the first time around, or make it $30 planning to shove most flops with a PSB behind. Then once it gets popped, shove it in. Pot has ~$80 in it so lets just take that $80 right now, or go heads up with someone for stacks (lol 50bb stacks) with 35bb dead money in between us.

Limping for $4 on the button is OK with a bunch of limpers in front. Your straight up set mining, but in a good situation to do it. Particularly at loose low stakes games where raising won't isolate much and stacks are short enough there is no reason to build the pot. When it comes back around at $16 you need to fold or shove. Your not getting the odds to set mine any more. Which is better depends on how loose the table is. Considering the shove got multiple callers, folding 88 is going to be better then shoving because your hand won't hold up multiway very often.

Really though, getting steamed because you would have won is probably the single biggest problem with this hand. If your playing good poker this is going to happen on a semi-regular basis. You have to learn to not let it bother you.

This seems like a fair assessment. I don't exactly play what would be considered "good" poker. I used to play a lot but now that I work in the industry, I quit playing almost completely. Now that I'm starting to play again, I'm trying to patch the gaping holes in my game.

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what he said^

As I said, the answer lies in whether the fold was correct in the moment, with perfect knowledge. You folded because your read was "somebody surely has a bigger pocket pair". Well was this assessment correct?

I'd probably go broke in this spot myself. UTG could be doing this with a huge range of sooted Broadway's, big aces, etc. BB could be figuring the same and just making a move. In light of this, 88 is probably gold.

Another consideration here is the straddle. I dont know how better to describe it, but straddles often evoke allot of ego and bluster, like you see here. This makes the limp that much worse imo.

Or he has AQo / 55 / 66 and you're ahead or way ahead.

One of the two.

No

No it wasn't. I didn't see all the hands but the board ran out J6886. UTG showed AK and took it down.

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