88 first hand at 1/2

utg makes it 10.. next to him Asian lady calls... I call in mp+1... next guy calls... btn calls

flop (50): 356hh
chk.. chk.. I chk..
old guy bets 20 (300 behind)
btn calls (220 behind)
pfr folds
Asian lady calls (500 behind)
action on me ???

Somebody's got a flush draw. Somebody's got a 4. Hard to see how anybody except the oldie has 99+ unless this table is a total limpfest.

Um, keep the pot small and call/re-evaluate? Hard to imagine you're going to see many cards you like on the turn. Why not bet this flop?

The small bet gives you great odds so call and see what happens. There really isn't much you want to see on turn, so plan to check everything and get to river cheap. This is a situation where you will lose more then win, but getting better then 5-1 on your money you can hope to improve or get a garbage run out.

How much you got behind? Did you buy-in short? I'm just gonna shove this if I've got something like $130 or less.

Do you have 8h? Assuming so:

Over $200 I would raise.

Between that would call.

Strangely though, I could also fold this without the 8h. It doesn't make a lot of difference equity wise, but it makes the turn practically unplayable without it. So having between $130-$200 without 8h I would just fold.

This is a great spot to squeeze as the small bet and calls all indicate small pair and/or draw type hands. If anyone had 88 beat they would have likely bet bigger than $20 initially or raised it up. I don't know what your stack size is, but I am bumping this up to $100-$120 and shoving brick turns (any non A, 7, 2 or heart).

Why not bet $40 or so when checked to on the flop? We probably have the best hand and would like to get as many people to fold as possible here. If we get called by a couple of players obv. proceeding cautiously.

Since you checked the first time, I like a big squeeze here. Perfect spot for it.

I think I would have bet the flop. If you just call now, as stated, proceed cautiously.

I check/raised to $100 (starting stack was $300) and everyone snap folded..

Figured nobody had 88 beat as you guys said..

Calling sucks because we'll most often be beat by showdown in this eleventeen way pot..

Do you guys consider this a value c/r or a semi-bluff c/r?

Value - because you are likely ahead of the current holdings but have virtually no chance of improving, while most of the deck is bad for you meaning you are making people "pay to play" if they want to hit their draw.

since $20 is less than half pot and nobody raise i think you good here enough to get it in or at least raise and see what the action is. it is possible that someone If someone flatted here with something like bottom 2 but there are enough hands to get value from i think you just have to go with the hand. If someone has a pair + str draw i think you get there money and same with some FDs and good 6s or pocket 4s. There are lots of goofy hands that bad players will have trouble laying down on this flop even though you have them in pretty bad shape. Also besides an 8 its pretty much impossible for a good turn card to come so just get the money in now.

You need to add 4's to your non-brick turns. I'd say 2 6's also aren't bricks.

So A,7,6,4,2,heart = 23 cards = half the deck. And not all bricks are bricks - possible heart draws easily contain broadway cards Ah, Kh, Qh, Jh, Th, etc., and when people continue, over cards can well hit them.

OP, lead the flop the first time around for value.

As played, I think the c/r is FPSy bordering on spew. We're readless. Old man puts money into 5-way pot and got 3 callers. I'm not thinking I have a huge amount of fold equity. Yes, your c/r is both a semi-bluff (hope over cards and/or draws fold) and for value (hope lower pairs and/or draws call). We often make plays for semi-bluff and value - for example, MP opens pre, we 3-bet with AK; we may expect 66 to fold (semi-bluff) and AQ to call (value).

As played, call the flop and play the turn.

Leading the flop yourself should be better than c/r 4-way readless. You can get value from 6x, hearts, 4x, 77, 44, maybe 22, etc., and you can also get those over cards to fold, achieving your semi-bluff. It's going to be a high volatility hand (e.g. you bet 35-40 on the flop and get some callers and go to the turn and need to dodge a turn of cards, etc.), but I think it's still +EV to bet for value.

I forgot about the 4's, but we also need to add 9's to the list for the guys with the 78 OESD. So pretty much the whole deck sucks for us.

I think the pair + straight draw hands are more likely to continue than naked flushes so I'm less worried about non-Ace overcards.

I think c/r the flop falls somewhere between calculated risk and FPS. C/R allows us to watch the action develop, and we now have a read that most players are fairly weak. If we lead the pot we open our-self up to getting semi-bluff shoved which becomes an incredibly difficult soul read call.

I actually employ this move occasionally when I call a raise out of the blinds with a mid-to-strong PP (JJ-88ish) and flop an overpair in a multiway pot with draws on board, especially if someone donks small and the original raiser folds. Might be considered thin but I've had good success with it.