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Old 08-21-2015, 07:17 PM   #1
kekeeke
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1/2 6 handed 450bbs deep

Table is dieing and action dried up in the last 15minutes. V is the only one making moves

1-2, Hero raises to 12 with QhJh MP. BU calls. Bu is an interesting reg, makes a lot of moves with a wideeee range, really likes taking polarized lines with weak hands to get bluffcatched, allows him to get paid off with his weaker holdings a lot. Also somewhat has betsizing tells (pot or overbet = value, less airballs or weak semibluff), shows up with airballs no equity drawing dead (ace high vs flopped trips) quite often.
Ex: 9 handed, V is on SB I'm on BB with A7s, someone makes it 10 (cant remember the hand perfectly like the positions but w/e), 4 players calls included V in SB, I call. Flop is A8T, V donks 40, I call, everybody else folds.
Turn is a 5, V overbets shove for 180-200, hero folds, V flashes cards and I see A9 (wtf?)

unto the hand
Flop 498r with a heart, hero cbets 20. V raises to 80. 6handed this deep his range is ATC unto the flop, he is capable of doing this with a pair, he stopped 3betting me a lot (not the first time we play, he would 3bet a lot before, now he plays very tight vs me pre unless we are insanely deep) so 99-88 are in his range. He can all have 2 pairs also but he also has been raising every flop since we are 6 handed, guess he had just read playing the player today or something. He can have showdown value hand like ace high, pairs, his range is just so damn wide. I think my overs are often good and obv I have a gutshot to the nuts and a bd fd to play the turn. Also I have the best hand with Q high vs all the open ended. Hero calls.

498 5d OTT, pot is 180. now this card sucks, lower open ended just got there but I think he bluffs so often 67 is not THAT big of a deal. Hero? c/f? c/c? donk?
What if the 5h came? What is heros line then? Us being OOP sucks donkey balls.
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Old 08-21-2015, 07:49 PM   #2
kookiemonster
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Re: 1/2 6 handed 450bbs deep

Deep 6handed is great fun. IŽd definitely be seat changing ASAP. You donŽt want this ****ing guy on your immediate left. Given the seating arrangement IŽd tighten up and play hyper aggro with my hands, prob. start c/ring every flop with hands I would like to continue with. Like you said, being OOP is horrible. This is the best way I can think of lessoning his positional advantage.

Super interesting hand. I would have probably gone for the c/r on the flop. As played you probably have implied odds to call the raise on the flop. Just c/f the turn.
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Old 08-21-2015, 09:05 PM   #3
QuadJ
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Re: 1/2 6 handed 450bbs deep

Check turn and see what villain does. You can call a small bet, but need to fold to a big one. The problem with a big bet is that your hand isn't strong enough to bluff catch, if he does have two pair+ you don't have enough outs and if you don't catch a pair on the river there are some air bluffs that beat you anyways.

And yes, you should be much happier if the turn is a 5h. That would give you a lot more outs, letting you call a bigger turn bet. You won't make a lot of money on the river if the flush comes in, but it gives you a lot more ways to win the hand. In this sort of situation it's catching your super disguised gut shot draw that will make the money, flush outs just give you enough ways to break even that you can stick around more often.
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Old 08-21-2015, 09:23 PM   #4
Amanaplan
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Re: 1/2 6 handed 450bbs deep

Deep short handed OOP vs a late street aggro V, I disagree with kookie here. I think it's better to play a wider range PF and aim to pot control (as best you can) and realize equity for less. JQhh with NSD does better as a ck-c than a bet-c,bet/3b line this deep - you really don't want to slow down V smash away style with ck-r semibluffs

5 turn is ck-f mostly if big bet, but there are a few calls here too given IO - your 4 outer might stack him since there's sets,2p, straights in his betting range a lot, so the super fishy line can at least be pondered. You'll lose a lot of smallish pots but likely win money exclusively vs this V who is unlikely to adjust if you continue to call pre and flops - he'll make some big mistakes on turns ...
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Old 08-21-2015, 09:43 PM   #5
scelsi
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Re: 1/2 6 handed 450bbs deep

QJs is ATC oop when es is 450bb, so I'd be less concerned about Vs holding than his fold-to-turn c/r if I'm flatting his flop raise. You're not making much when the obv straight comes in; this is only really profitable as a bluff spot. And coolering V with st vs set should not be your "plan".

AP, c/f and plug that leak in future hands...
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Old 08-21-2015, 10:19 PM   #6
Evil Empire36
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Re: 1/2 6 handed 450bbs deep

Out of position I'm folding to villian raise on flop. Don't have much invested in the hand.
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Old 08-21-2015, 10:30 PM   #7
djevans
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Re: 1/2 6 handed 450bbs deep

Also you don't need to make it 6BB pre imo unless the rake is out of control.

With no rake i'm going $7-$10. With a standard rake $12 is good.


Flop kinda hits his range more than ours. I like check/calling or check/raising

Turn is probably a check/fold

Check raising may allow us to see 2 streets.

We are too deep to check fold this on flop IMO but not terrible. BTW I'd probably rack up and leave this table. No reason to play vs this guy if other games are going on. If this is a house game it's very rude to seat change. I'd probably just call my 30
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Old 08-22-2015, 12:36 AM   #8
wj94
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Re: 1/2 6 handed 450bbs deep

Given V description I'm probably checking flop if he has a tendency to raise light. We have good equity and don't want to get blown off it, and it's going to be hard to continue OOP without improving on turn so you end up c/f a lot. I also would have bet smaller on the flip if leading, $10-15. Potting it doesn't help us because we are OOP and he's unlikely to fold just about anything this deep. You're trying to set up a big pot in case you hit big, but unless you gutterball it or backdoor a flush you're going to end up in some crappy spots, especially when you just make a pair.
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Old 08-22-2015, 01:14 AM   #9
kekeeke
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Re: 1/2 6 handed 450bbs deep

c/c flop is a good plan i like, i find i was pretty much autobetting into this guy and i try to make my sizing balanced vs somewhat aware foes and id play an overpair/tp/2p/sets with the same sizing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scelsi View Post
QJs is ATC oop when es is 450bb, so I'd be less concerned about Vs holding than his fold-to-turn c/r if I'm flatting his flop raise. You're not making much when the obv straight comes in; this is only really profitable as a bluff spot. And coolering V with st vs set should not be your "plan".

AP, c/f and plug that leak in future hands...
what do you mean, can you reword this?

Hero checks and V bets 100. Interesting sizing because I think he would bet more with all value hand beside pair + gutshot with SDV and the nuts maybe he would bet so little with, Hero?

Quote:
Check turn and see what villain does. You can call a small bet, but need to fold to a big one. The problem with a big bet is that your hand isn't strong enough to bluff catch, if he does have two pair+ you don't have enough outs and if you don't catch a pair on the river there are some air bluffs that beat you anyways.

And yes, you should be much happier if the turn is a 5h. That would give you a lot more outs, letting you call a bigger turn bet. You won't make a lot of money on the river if the flush comes in, but it gives you a lot more ways to win the hand. In this sort of situation it's catching your super disguised gut shot draw that will make the money, flush outs just give you enough ways to break even that you can stick around more often.
I find this is what the main problem was with my hand, he could easily have airballs ace high and be value betting my q high so just calling trying to hit is pretty awful

i cant really table select, this is the only game that runs pretty much
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Old 08-22-2015, 07:11 AM   #10
scelsi
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Re: 1/2 6 handed 450bbs deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by kekeeke View Post
what do you mean, can you reword this?
Don't call the raise on the flop if your plan is simply making a hand and getting paid, because V isn't stacking off in this spot often enough for that to be profitable. You're only 8%, which is 12.5-1, and you're calling 60 to win 112+784, which would be correct (14.9-1) if V *always* stacks off....but the fact is that Vs range is not ONLY sets, and T984 smacks YOUR calling range hard enough that you'll have trouble getting the additional ~400bb in by the river.

If you're calling with the intent to c/r bluff favorable turn cards against a more realistic V range that includes some med pairs TT-JJ, A9s, then you've got a potentially profitable spot.
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Old 08-22-2015, 02:59 PM   #11
kekeeke
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Re: 1/2 6 handed 450bbs deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by scelsi View Post
Don't call the raise on the flop if your plan is simply making a hand and getting paid, because V isn't stacking off in this spot often enough for that to be profitable. You're only 8%, which is 12.5-1, and you're calling 60 to win 112+784, which would be correct (14.9-1) if V *always* stacks off....but the fact is that Vs range is not ONLY sets, and T984 smacks YOUR calling range hard enough that you'll have trouble getting the additional ~400bb in by the river.

If you're calling with the intent to c/r bluff favorable turn cards against a more realistic V range that includes some med pairs TT-JJ, A9s, then you've got a potentially profitable spot.
I see, I did want to bluff the turn on some cards (likr most hearts) or call down when I hit some showdown value, it's hard to flop a set 6 handed and this guy reps one everyhand so yeah.

If ai hit the T I doubt he is good enough to slow down with his bluffs, probs puts me on aces and sees how scary this board is and puts a sht ton in the middle. I think his turn bet is very polarizing too but you never know with this guy.

I ended up folding because of the terrible card and no SDV but I was never folding any value hand here vs this guy, felt dirty folding

Also I think he has TT+ close to never, he slowed down in 3bets but still soes it with TT+ for sure.
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