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Old 06-05-2013, 01:12 AM   #1
Sief
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1/2- 56 sooted UTG, beast flop

1/2 NL 8 handed

Hero has been at the table for a few hours... This table has been very tight passive for the most part. $8 dollar raises taking down the blinds, lots of limp/folding etc. two players in particular seem to love making it $6 -8 pf. two others seem to be young ABC tags.

Villain in this hand is one of the latter. Seems pretty straightforward towards the passive side so far. playing a pretty narrow range. witness limping some hands that should be auto raises (medium PPs, big aces).


Hero($565)-UTG-dealt 56, raises to $4(i know this seems silly, but i can explain my reasoning if necessary)

The two super passives call from MPs, BTN calls, SB completes

Villain($345)-BB- Raises to $30 total

Hero calls, rest fold

Pot: $$76

Flop 2 4 5

Villain bets $40, Hero raises to $135, Villains tanks then ships...

Pot : $346 facing $180 more to call...

interested in any thoughts/opinions on how entire hand was played...


.... results later
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:23 AM   #2
iCoffey
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Re: 1/2- 56 sooted UTG, beast flop

It looks like he has a pocket pair QQ or better. If you want to gamble on making a straight or flush go for it, but assume your pair is no good.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:25 AM   #3
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Re: 1/2- 56 sooted UTG, beast flop

Quote:
Originally Posted by iCoffey View Post
It looks like he has a pocket pair QQ or better. If you want to gamble on making a straight or flush go for it, but assume your pair is no good.
wwyd?
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:32 AM   #4
iCoffey
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Re: 1/2- 56 sooted UTG, beast flop

I would just call his bet and hope to improve my hand on the turn. If I don't hit the straight or the flush, I would fold to a bet on the turn. As played, think it's a reluctant call.

Last edited by iCoffey; 06-05-2013 at 01:38 AM.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:33 AM   #5
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Re: 1/2- 56 sooted UTG, beast flop

i'm never playing the hand this way, but this is a call
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:34 AM   #6
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Re: 1/2- 56 sooted UTG, beast flop

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

25,740 games 0.001 secs 25,740,000 games/sec

Board: 5c 2s 4s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 43.011% 42.56% 00.45% 10954 117.00 { JJ+, AsKs, AsQs }
Hand 1: 56.989% 56.53% 00.45% 14552 117.00 { 6s5s }
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:36 AM   #7
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Re: 1/2- 56 sooted UTG, beast flop

Quote:
Originally Posted by IbelieveinChipKelly View Post
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

25,740 games 0.001 secs 25,740,000 games/sec

Board: 5c 3s 2s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 39.038% 38.18% 00.86% 9828 220.50 { JJ+, AsKs, AsQs }
Hand 1: 60.962% 60.10% 00.86% 15471 220.50 { 5s4s }


---
Quote:
Originally Posted by IbelieveinChipKelly View Post
i'm never playing the hand this way, but this is a call
how would u have played it... do u mean the PF?
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:37 AM   #8
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Re: 1/2- 56 sooted UTG, beast flop

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Originally Posted by Sief View Post
how would u have played it... do u mean the PF?
i made a mistake in the stove and fixed it btw
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:38 AM   #9
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Re: 1/2- 56 sooted UTG, beast flop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sief View Post
how would u have played it... do u mean the PF?
i would have folded pre TBH

on the flop, raise, then snap call
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:42 AM   #10
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Re: 1/2- 56 sooted UTG, beast flop

Raise flop is standard, as played snap call but expect to have to hit to win or be up against a big flush draw. Hate ur pre flop call.. Both of u need to be around 520 deep at the minimum unless u think u can get him to fold most of his range post flop often even if u miss
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:53 AM   #11
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Re: 1/2- 56 sooted UTG, beast flop

PF: Silly open but w/e I'm sure it has something to do with you really wanting to play 56s and thinking min raising it buys you a cheap flop where as limping gets you a $7 raise to call. After v 3bets (if this even qualifies as a 3 bet lol) call barely comes in under the 5/10 rule but it's not that big of a stretch to take a flier on if we know BB will stack off with overpairs.

Flop: you are 60% fav v. AA, 55% if he has the As, and 55% v a range of 55+ obv getting it in can't ever be bad esp. with dead money in the pot.

In this case you flopped about as good as you can but usually you are going to be in a much tougher spot (like 25% or 35% equity) or missing all together and I don't think either min raising 56s from UTG or flatting PF for almost 10% of effective stacks is going to be +EV.

Last edited by cAmmAndo; 06-05-2013 at 02:06 AM.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:53 AM   #12
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Re: 1/2- 56 sooted UTG, beast flop

What happened?
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:59 AM   #13
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Re: 1/2- 56 sooted UTG, beast flop

Fold pre, this Villain's range to raise to 30 crushes your 56s. We're obviously assuming Villain most likely has QQ, KK or AA maybe AKs w/this raise based on his ABC passive description.

As played, call or raise OTF was fine by my count you're getting the right pot odds to do either. . I count you have 9 spades, 3 threes (not double counting 3), 2 fives and 3 sixes as outs to make a better hand that Villain's overpair hand which totals to 17 outs (unless he has AK, then you're ahead now but in a coin-flip situation on the run-out).

As played, call Villain's all in. you are getting the right pot odds with this many outs. Also I think the pot amount you have listed that you are shoving into is incorrect (my math added to $526 pot with an additional $180 to call Villain).
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:13 AM   #14
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Re: 1/2- 56 sooted UTG, beast flop

pre flop is really bad.

fold pre is best.

if for some reason (balance, table image, huge post flop edge etc) you want to play this hand UTG, then either make a proper raise that allows you to rep a load more hands otf or limp if you think it may limp around or be subject to a small raise that you can call if you are fairly sure there'll be callers behind you

but really, fold pre - you're going to be oop with a speculative hand

you should be folding to the BB's raise. you're dominated and OOP vs any other callers and if you get heads up, there's no way you're getting odds to call unless 1. he squeezes all the time with rags and then 2. plays fit or fold post

post flop, I'm getting it in there for sure. I mean, how can you call that huge raise pre, flop basically the stone cold nizzles and then fold?
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:18 AM   #15
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def raise pre previous posters are garbage you're ahead of aces pokerstove.com callcallcallcallcall dead money in the pot yo wtffff
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Old 06-05-2013, 05:34 AM   #16
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Re: 1/2- 56 sooted UTG, beast flop

This is the exact flop you want calling with 56 suited. He obviously has an overpair and I would raised the flop with the intention of getting it all in should he ship. What kind of flop did you want calling pre with 56? 556, like I said, Im more than happy to play it aggressive and raise and get it in if he ships.
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Old 06-08-2013, 03:15 AM   #17
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Diamond Re: 1/2- 56 sooted UTG, beast flop

I know my PF play was questionable. but i had a few reasons. based on my reads at this table.. i feel that these are the type of players that will have a real hard time getting away from big PPs type hands(who doesnt, but moreso than normal).

-based on how the table was playing... nobody was going to 3bet me without a big pocketpair.
-if they did 3bet it would most likely be for a poorly sized amount that i could still call if i wanted
-if i put in a normal raise, ill get blown off my hand when they have the hands i want them to have
-cant bring myself to open limp

now having said all that, our villain makes a pretty solid raise size, but looking at nearly 2 to 1($26 to win $76), i feel like i can make up the difference with implied odds + position, and a precise read on his range

anyway. my biggest question wiht the hand was do i put in the raise on the flop? just call in position? or raise a smaller amount? in game, i figured i was a favorite over one pair hands so might as well get it in there.

results:

Spoiler:
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Old 06-08-2013, 03:47 AM   #18
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Re: 1/2- 56 sooted UTG, beast flop

Make it $10 pre and I'm good with everything else, nh. I make it $10 at minimum playing 1/2 from any position bc I open a lot & when I cbet I need to win more to balance the times I don't flop a 'percieved range hand' or I can't fight post or don't smash flops like this.

Only thing that's tough is its $30 all day pre. We wanna be a bit deeper effective before we put in ~10% of eff stacks. I think he'll 3b to $30 if we open to $4 or $8 or $10. If we open to $10 and he 3b to $45, obv easy fold.
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Old 06-08-2013, 04:38 AM   #19
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Re: 1/2- 56 sooted UTG, beast flop

Well played. If one of the nits shoved instead of PF raiser I would be more wary as you're dominated by 55,44,22 and 54.
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Old 06-08-2013, 11:32 AM   #20
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Re: 1/2- 56 sooted UTG, beast flop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sief View Post
I know my PF play was questionable.
To put it mildly. He only had 170BBs preflop, and you were out of position to everyone but him and the sb. That means a few or a lot of over-calls could happen behind you (aren't really happy with either one) and you would have to smash a flop (such as you did) to have any chance of winning in a bloated pot. Fold pre. Cheers.
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Old 06-08-2013, 11:43 AM   #21
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Re: 1/2- 56 sooted UTG, beast flop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sief View Post
I know my PF play was questionable. but i had a few reasons. based on my reads at this table.. i feel that these are the type of players that will have a real hard time getting away from big PPs type hands(who doesnt, but moreso than normal).

-based on how the table was playing... nobody was going to 3bet me without a big pocketpair.
-if they did 3bet it would most likely be for a poorly sized amount that i could still call if i wanted
-if i put in a normal raise, ill get blown off my hand when they have the hands i want them to have
-cant bring myself to open limp

now having said all that, our villain makes a pretty solid raise size, but looking at nearly 2 to 1($26 to win $76), i feel like i can make up the difference with implied odds + position, and a precise read on his range

anyway. my biggest question wiht the hand was do i put in the raise on the flop? just call in position? or raise a smaller amount? in game, i figured i was a favorite over one pair hands so might as well get it in there.

results:

Spoiler:
Don't raise if you don't know how to react to a shove. Put him on a range while deciding what's your best line and estimate your equity. If you conclude you're flipping against his range its an easy call OTF as played.
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