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<img /2.5 with 10Js on straight-flush draw flop <img /2.5 with 10Js on straight-flush draw flop

08-29-2010 , 10:47 AM
Game is in Macau thus the 1/2.5 blinds since i'm approximating the currency.

Hero is on the button with 10J with a stack of $70. There are 5 limpers and I call on the button, SB calls and BB checks.

Flop comes: AQ9, action checks round to hero. There is $20 in pot. What should hero's action be?

And is calling preflop on the button with 10Js viable as a small stack?
<img /2.5 with 10Js on straight-flush draw flop Quote
08-29-2010 , 11:02 AM
i dont mind a call if its a limp on the button.

bet anywhere from 15-20 on flop. you want all As and SDs and even FDs calling you.

basically you have a hand tht plays great VS lots o people.
<img /2.5 with 10Js on straight-flush draw flop Quote
08-29-2010 , 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MK7749
i dont mind a call if its a limp on the button.

bet anywhere from 15-20 on flop. you want all As and SDs and even FDs calling you.

basically you have a hand tht plays great VS lots o people.
Um, it's checked to hero in a limped pot. No one probably has much, and while we should have 50%+ equity, we def dont want a pair of aces or queens calling us as we're flipping with them. bet an amount that will likely take the pot down (1/2 pot - 3/4 pot).
<img /2.5 with 10Js on straight-flush draw flop Quote
08-29-2010 , 11:22 AM
7 people check to you? Any reads on how loosely people are calling postflop? If you can expect to get a few calls with a near-potsized bet, then go ahead and do that. You equity should be around 50% at this point.
This commits you to calling off the rest of your chips on the turn should your draw miss. That's the downside.

And, oh, flipping with dead money in the pot is not a bad thing. Suppose I gave you a 50/50 shot of losing 70 or winning 90. What's the EV of accepting this coin toss?

I wouldn't fold preflop.
<img /2.5 with 10Js on straight-flush draw flop Quote
08-29-2010 , 12:01 PM
If you pot it - just bear in mind you have to call it off on all none pairing turns.
<img /2.5 with 10Js on straight-flush draw flop Quote
08-29-2010 , 01:25 PM
Forgot to mention that everyone's stack covers me. The game so far has been 1 or 2 aggressive players post-flop and most pots have been played with 3-5 players. My reads weren't too concrete as there hasn't been many showdowns but the ones I've seen gave me an impression that there was quite a bit of bluffing going on (a lot muck immediately after getting called on the river).

I opted to shove at this spot since I felt I had ~50% equity combined with some FE. Is this a good move or am I not extracting enough value and only getting myself in coin flip situations?

I just felt if I shove now I could get the K-high or Q-high flush draws to potentially fold since these cards would probably get a lot of value from me if we hit our flushes. And for those advising me to bet, what do I do on the turn if I don't improve and villain shoves me?
<img /2.5 with 10Js on straight-flush draw flop Quote
08-29-2010 , 03:27 PM
You have just the problematic stack. I find it a bit too big to shove like you did, even though it's a drawing hand it's a monster, I would want weak aces etc to call me. I think with your stack size I play it like the nuts. 2/3 pot, and shove on almost all turns. Maybe not ace. Hopefully you get more than 1 caller, it looks like you might with that type of game and flop texture. Then, it's an easy call if somebody shoves turn.

I think the only turn where that I would get away from is another A.

Strategy totally different on a 100BB+ stack.
<img /2.5 with 10Js on straight-flush draw flop Quote
08-29-2010 , 07:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sushiparlour
Forgot to mention that everyone's stack covers me. The game so far has been 1 or 2 aggressive players post-flop and most pots have been played with 3-5 players. My reads weren't too concrete as there hasn't been many showdowns but the ones I've seen gave me an impression that there was quite a bit of bluffing going on (a lot muck immediately after getting called on the river).

I opted to shove at this spot since I felt I had ~50% equity combined with some FE. Is this a good move or am I not extracting enough value and only getting myself in coin flip situations?

I just felt if I shove now I could get the K-high or Q-high flush draws to potentially fold since these cards would probably get a lot of value from me if we hit our flushes. And for those advising me to bet, what do I do on the turn if I don't improve and villain shoves me?
if players are randomly trappy with top pair, and are calling stations postflop, you can just check back the flop, and improve to a flush or straight 1/3 the time on the turn for free, and even when you don't still have good implied odds on the turn.

it just seems rare for someone to get you in on the turn when they just check and call your flop bet. villains donking random turns is bizarre, and if they check (intending to c/r) you can easily just check behind. should they donk into you, you probably have no fold equity, and have to continue depending on immediate / implied pot odds.
<img /2.5 with 10Js on straight-flush draw flop Quote
08-29-2010 , 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slik
if players are randomly trappy with top pair, and are calling stations postflop, you can just check back the flop, and improve to a flush or straight 1/3 the time on the turn for free, and even when you don't still have good implied odds on the turn.

it just seems rare for someone to get you in on the turn when they just check and call your flop bet. villains donking random turns is bizarre, and if they check (intending to c/r) you can easily just check behind. should they donk into you, you probably have no fold equity, and have to continue depending on immediate / implied pot odds.
don't understand this logic very much. you have to bet now and not wait to make your hand which will always be a scare card + win you a smaller pot + win less often.

actually i read it once more and it's plain bad avice. with that many people in pot you'll probably get 2 or more callers, very possibly a CR and then you'll happily stick it in with your pretty short stack with great odds working for you to win a very nice pot.
<img /2.5 with 10Js on straight-flush draw flop Quote
08-31-2010 , 02:08 PM
Just wondering, is it ever advisable to check the flop? I just feel that there is very little merit in doing so since betting folds out other hands and also builds the pot so you can shove on turn/river. Also if we check then what do we do on turn when we don't hit our flush or straight?
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08-31-2010 , 07:53 PM
I don't think you can ever check this flop. Any turn that completes your draw will probably also kill your action.

I'm not to thrilled about the shove. You're unlikely to get the call from the weak pair hands you want. I would bet whatever is standard for a c-bet ($8-$15, I'm guessing) in this game, with the idea of getting it in on almost any turn.
<img /2.5 with 10Js on straight-flush draw flop Quote
08-31-2010 , 08:16 PM
I dont think - you have much FE on the turn to a c/c on this flop.
<img /2.5 with 10Js on straight-flush draw flop Quote
09-01-2010 , 03:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by babounet
don't understand this logic very much. you have to bet now and not wait to make your hand which will always be a scare card + win you a smaller pot + win less often.

actually i read it once more and it's plain bad avice. with that many people in pot you'll probably get 2 or more callers, very possibly a CR and then you'll happily stick it in with your pretty short stack with great odds working for you to win a very nice pot.
If there's some (don't need much just some) fold equity, betting is best.

If there is no fold equity and people are stationy in general, checking is somewhat better. Clearly you can't go wrong betting with so many outs, but if people are never folding and still paying you off when you hit, checking it back is even more profitable.
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